Why the hate for Cyclists?

[Ingomike]

The point you're missing (or willfully ignoring): the motorists already did pay to have their own roads.

They did not. They paid to have roads that were shared with other legal uses along with other taxpayers, some that are bicyclists. Motorists did pay for the interstate system that is theirs alone by law.

You are claiming something that is counter to the laws. If you don’t like the laws there are ways to change them. Until that time bicycles have every equal right to use the roads…

 

[Ingomike]

And therein lies the straw man. @jamil never claimed that cyclists "should not exist."

Jeez, that he certainly doesn’t want them on his roads is abundantly clear…

 

[chipbennett]

They did not. They paid to have roads that were shared with other legal uses along with other taxpayers, some that are bicyclists. Motorists did pay for the interstate system that is theirs alone by law.

You are claiming something that is counter to the laws. If you don’t like the laws there are ways to change them. Until that time bicycles have every equal right to use the roads…

Just false. The majority of state funding for roads comes from fuel taxes, motor vehicle licensing/registration fees, and road-use tolls. We've covered this before.

I'm not claiming anything at all that is counter to the laws, no matter how you try to straw man what I've said.

 

[chipbennett]

Jeez, that he certainly doesn’t want them on his roads is abundantly clear…

Doubling down on the straw man is certainly one strategy.

 

[Ingomike]

Just false. The majority of state funding for roads comes from fuel taxes, motor vehicle licensing/registration fees, and road-use tolls. We've covered this before.

I'm not claiming anything at all that is counter to the laws, no matter how you try to straw man what I've said.

If a cyclist owns a car do they too not pay for roads and the ability to use them legally?

 

[chipbennett]

If a cyclist owns a car do they too not pay for roads and the ability to use them legally?

You tried this one before, too. If the cyclist owns a car, then the cyclist is also a motorist, paid for the roads by virtue of being a motorist, and are free to use the roads as a motorist just the same as any other motorist. Pedestrians and horseback riders can also be motorists. That status doesn't give any of them unfettered use of roads designed for motor vehicle use.

Cyclists, pedestrians, and horseback riders all have legal ability to use public roads. That legal use is defined/constrained by laws - just as it is for motorists. It seems to me that a certain subset of cyclists don't like the current legal constraints around use of public roads (obeying stop signs, yielding right-of-way to faster traffic, etc.), and want to have special carve-outs for their own use of public roads. And to make matters worse, some within that subset want motorists to pay for those carve-outs, including excluding motor vehicles from using part of the public roads that those same motorists paid for in the first place.

 

[jamil]

Really? Selfish people whining about sharing public resources being told they can pay to have their own roads is socialist? You know better than that…

When cyclists start paying their fair share of road taxes then you have a valid complaint. Cyclists don’t pay gas tax. If they have a motor vehicle their gas tax pays for their vehicle’s road use.

 

[Ingomike]

When cyclists start paying their fair share of road taxes then you have a valid complaint. Cyclists don’t pay gas tax. If they have a motor vehicle their gas tax pays for their vehicle’s road use.

As much as Chip wants to say they don’t, they do, as there are few that do not also own cars therefore paying road tax, but there is other money besides gas tax that has been spent over the years to build roads.

 

[jamil]

As much as Chip wants to say they don’t, they do, as there are few that do not also own cars therefore paying road tax, but there is other money besides gas tax that has been spent over the years to build roads.

I’m making a “ought” argument not an “is” argument. It may be that cyclists are recognized by the law as having a right to be on the roads. It shouldn’t be that way. It needn’t be that way. It should be that cyclists ride on road at the benevolence of drivers and should be able to withdraw their benevolence at their whim. Same as people who put pineapple on pizza. We tolerate you. Barely.

 

[chipbennett]

When cyclists start paying their fair share of road taxes then you have a valid complaint. Cyclists don’t pay gas tax. If they have a motor vehicle their gas tax pays for their vehicle’s road use.

Correct. No gas tax. No vehicle licensing/registration fees. No road tolls.

 

[chipbennett]

As much as Chip wants to say they don’t, they do, as there are few that do not also own cars therefore paying road tax, but there is other money besides gas tax that has been spent over the years to build roads.

Cyclists don't pay those. Motorists do. That "motorist" and "cyclist" might overlap is irrelevant. The revenues that fund roads are paid by motorists.

 

[chipbennett]

I’m making a “ought” argument not an “is” argument. It may be that cyclists are recognized by the law as having a right to be on the roads. It shouldn’t be that way. It needn’t be that way. It should be that cyclists ride on road at the benevolence of drivers and should be able to withdraw their benevolence at their whim. Same as people who put pineapple on pizza. We tolerate you. Barely.

Here's the crazy thing: I believe that roads can and should be shared with cyclists. The hard-line stance being taken by some cyclists will eventually serve to eliminate the goodwill and support of even people like me.

 

[AndreusMaximus]

 

[jamil]

Here's the crazy thing: I believe that roads can and should be shared with cyclists. The hard-line stance being taken by some cyclists will eventually serve to eliminate the goodwill and support of even people like me.

I mean, I actually agree with this. I’m just ****-posting at this point because some people are taking this thread way to seriously.

 

[Ingomike]

Here's the crazy thing: I believe that roads can and should be shared with cyclists. The hard-line stance being taken by some cyclists will eventually serve to eliminate the goodwill and support of even people like me.

Do you really believe this? Bike projects are among the most popular endeavors state and local politicians undertake. Bikes are not on the road because of motorists benevolence.

I can see it now in our dystopian future a few years after Chip and jamil get bicycles removed as legal transportation on public streets. The poor serfs, which is most people, no longer can afford EV’s, ICE has been outlawed and everyone laments that it is illegal to ride bikes on the public roads…

 

[jamil]

Do you really believe this? Bike projects are among the most popular endeavors state and local politicians undertake. Bikes are not on the road because of motorists benevolence.

I can see it now in our dystopian future a few years after Chip and jamil get bicycles removed as legal transportation on public streets. The poor serfs, which is most people, no longer can afford EV’s, ICE has been outlawed and everyone laments that it is illegal to ride bikes on the public roads…

Good. You’re able to have fun with it. This is good therapy.

 

[chipbennett]

Do you really believe this? Bike projects are among the most popular endeavors state and local politicians undertake. Bikes are not on the road because of motorists benevolence.

I can see it now in our dystopian future a few years after Chip and jamil get bicycles removed as legal transportation on public streets. The poor serfs, which is most people, no longer can afford EV’s, ICE has been outlawed and everyone laments that it is illegal to ride bikes on the public roads…

Is there anything in any of my posts in this thread that imply otherwise? Yes, I believe that roads can and should be shared. Where I have taken issue, as posed by the OP/title, is with the attitudes and behaviors of a certain subset of cyclists.

 

[Ingomike]

Is there anything in any of my posts in this thread that imply otherwise? Yes, I believe that roads can and should be shared. Where I have taken issue, as posed by the OP/title, is with the attitudes and behaviors of a certain subset of cyclists.

And cyclists should not have issue with the attitudes and behaviors of a certain subset of motorists? Has a cyclist ever killed a motorist?

The OP asked “why the hate for cyclists”. IMO it comes donwn to a few things. I believe the first is jealousy. Jealous that those cyclists have the time and ability to ride their bike, that they are out there in the fresh air, just effortlessly gliding along, while overweight and out of shape drivers channel that jealousy into anger they are being delayed, or the cyclist didn’t follow every law to the T while the motorists are speeding, roll stopping, failing to use turn signals, turning on red without stopping first, the list I see daily on the roads could go on and on.

It is so predictable that these discussions always go to the cyclist not following the law to the T while motorists are the worst. Maybe motorists should clean their own house before they set their site on cleaning up others…

 

[chipbennett]

And cyclists should not have issue with the attitudes and behaviors of a certain subset of motorists? Has a cyclist ever killed a motorist?

The OP asked “why the hate for cyclists”. IMO it comes donwn to a few things. I believe the first is jealousy. Jealous that those cyclists have the time and ability to ride their bike, that they are out there in the fresh air, just effortlessly gliding along, while overweight and out of shape drivers channel that jealousy into anger they are being delayed, or the cyclist didn’t follow every law to the T while the motorists are speeding, roll stopping, failing to use turn signals, turning on red without stopping first, the list I see daily on the roads could go on and on.

It is so predictable that these discussions always go to the cyclist not following the law to the T while motorists are the worst. Maybe motorists should clean their own house before they set their site on cleaning up others…

Riiiiiiiight....

 

[Ingomike]

Riiiiiiiight....

So what is the catalyst for your contempt for cyclists? If you see a cyclist run a stop sign why do you care? Not hurting you. I thought you were all about freedom?