Winchester Super-X Nickel-plated Brass

[DoggyDaddy]

So I bought a batch of once-fired, mixed headstamp nickel-plated .357 brass at the Greenfield show yesterday, and after loading up 49 rounds (ruined one setting up my seating die), I am finding that all the ones with the Winchester Super-X headstamp are oversized, despite going through my carbide re-sizing/decapping die. They won't even fit into my cylinder. Anyone else had this happen? I guess I need to get a bullet puller and scrap these. The ones with R-P or Remington UMC headstamps are fine. A few of the Super-X will go into the cylinder on my revolver, but are a little tight. Any danger in shooting these, or should I scrap them too? I reckon this will learn me to check sizing before charging the cases! FWIW I'm using Montana Gold 125 gr. JHP bullets.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Christmas bump... anyone? Any advice appreciated!

 

[O'Shark]

First of all, Merry Christmas! I'm scratching my head over this. The first thing I'd do is to measure the diameter of a loaded Super-X round at the case mouth and compare it to the rounds that fit. Was the expander die set the same way for all of the brass? If your chamber diameters are on the low side of in spec and the Montana Gold bullets are on the high side of in spec, that could be just enough to make them not chamber once the plating is factored in. Maybe those cases are made of something other than brass. Instead of being resized, they could be just getting squeezed and then spring back to their original size. I've never had that problem with nickel plated cases but they are harder to run through my RCBS sizing die.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

First of all, Merry Christmas! I'm scratching my head over this. The first thing I'd do is to measure the diameter of a loaded Super-X round at the case mouth and compare it to the rounds that fit. Was the expander die set the same way for all of the brass? If your chamber diameters are on the low side of in spec and the Montana Gold bullets are on the high side of in spec, that could be just enough to make them not chamber once the plating is factored in. Maybe those cases are made of something other than brass. Instead of being resized, they could be just getting squeezed and then spring back to their original size. I've never had that problem with nickel plated cases but they are harder to run through my RCBS sizing die.

Merry Christmas to you too! Just measured one of the oversize cartridges and it's 0.386". The cartridges that fit with no problem are 0.378 - 0.382". Not a huge difference, but certainly enough to make a difference (obviously). I was assured that the Super-X were indeed nickel plated brass, and the expander/charging die setting was the same for all. I think I'm resigned to pulling the bullets, saving the powder and trashing the rest of the Super-X brass (at least I only bought 100, not all of which were Super-X).

As for the ones that do fit in my cylinder but with a tight fit, is there any danger in shooting them, or should I scrap those too? When I say "tight", I mean they don't drop freely into the cylinder, but require a gentle push (not pounding them in with a mallet ).

 

[O'Shark]

Wow. I'd hate to answer that last question. It looks like you found your root cause but without seeing what is going on with my own eyes, I can't advise you to shoot them. All may not be lost though. That brass may very well work in a different gun.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Wow. I'd hate to answer that last question. It looks like you found your root cause but without seeing what is going on with my own eyes, I can't advise you to shoot them. All may not be lost though. That brass may very well work in a different gun.

Understood. I think the safest might be to scrap them. I only have the one revolver (Ruger GP100), so don't really have another to save them for. I think the most likely worst-case scenario might be that they'd get stuck in the cylinder rather than causing an actual safety issue, but I really don't want that either. Thanks!

 

[Leo]

That is weird. I have been reloading 38/.357 since 1974, and had gotten a huge amount of winchester nickle brass from the widow of a Chicago police officer. I never had any problems but I cannot say if they where "super X" or not. What is the wall thickness as opposed to the thickness on brass you do noy have trouble with? I though I had pretty much seen or experienced most .357 reload issues, but never heard that one.

 

[SSGSAD]

JM Humble O, but if all the brass, goes through the SAME sizing die, then the Outside Diameter, SHOULD be the same.... Would have to see the loaded case... Look for a "buldge", where the bullet seats...

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I think both you guys have a point. The measurements I took should bear this out, but if the brass is thicker on the Super-X, then even if the sized OD is the same, the ID would be smaller. When the bullet gets seated, it causes the mouth of the cartridge to expand, hence the slightly larger measurement. ~.006 or so is probably too small a difference for my old eyes to see easily, but the calipers don't lie. Sound reasonable? I'll have to find a couple of cases and measure the thickness.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Measured the thickness of the cases:
R-P case = .010
Super-X case = .013

I.D.
R-P case = .352
Super-X case = .348

Conclusion: The Super-X cases are indeed thick enough to account for the difference in the loaded rounds. Wish I'd have noticed before I primed them.

 

[bdybdall]

I noticed that in another caliber, .45 Colt. I loaded about 300 rounds at one time and the W-W's were bigger than the R-P's and the PMC's. Thicker might not be bad if they chamber.

 

[DHolder]

I've had the same problem with .38 in my GP100. i dont recall the HS, and I was using LHWC.
I have the tight ones, guess i need to do some checking?