Winchester Train & Defend ammo

[Cygnus]

I have seen these packaged separately at Cabela's. I already had some PDX-1 so I didn't need any Defend I was going to try the train but opted for the Winchester 9MM Nato 124grn for $13..99/50. Seemed like a decent deal.
Anyone have any experiecne with the Winchester 9mm NATO? Is it by default "better" or "hotter" than the Training ammo from the OP?
Sorry for the semi threadjack.

 

[STEEL CORE]

I have both 147 gr Train and defend loads in 9mm, you do see it in different packaging and also last time I stopped at Fishers 96thst Wal-Mart, it was in 124 gr +P loading also same marked.
The recoil of the 147 FMJ was/is stiff, to me not exceptional, but no say PMC 115 gr FMJ load either, again the Idea is to train with what you carry, and since its basically Win PDX-1 9mm in either 124 +P or 147 gr JHP, what's not to like?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

What I don't like to hear is people tell others that you have to use HP for stopping power otherwise you'll penetrate right through the bad guy and he'll keep coming. Now, I have never been shot, but I have seen people shot and it's not like the movies where the bad guy gets shot several times and just keeps coming. So you keep educating and "make people feel safe". As for the seaoned and experienced part, I earned that the hard way and not by posting 5564 posts on a forum.

Ball ammo over penetrates, even in "small" calibers like .380 when only soft tissue is struck.

People sometimes do just keep going, even after multiple hits. Even a non-survivable wound is not always enough to stop the fight. Sometimes people stop just from the noise.

I've investigated hundreds of shootings. I'll keep carrying bonded hollow-points for self defense.

 

[TB1999]

Just to follow up on the OP...

The Winchester event was pretty cool. There were a few demos that I had never seen before in person.

Train & Defend 380 were both fired into a gel block, with FBI standards (gel is covered with denim, fleece and a couple layers of cotton fabric). The penetration was still very good, with the ball (train) ammo passing all the way through the block.

To show the reduced muzzle flash of the defend ammo, it was fired with the lights turned off in the range. There was quite a difference in flash between t&d and standard winchester ammo.

The biggest down side (for me) is that, as of now, there is only Train ammo in .45, with no definite release date of Defend. Since my only handgun at this point is a 45, this turned me off. Based on the premise that both train and defend fire the same through a pistol, what is the point of only releasing one of the two ammos in any particular caliber? The train ammo is more expensive than most other ammo, so why would I pay more for the train ammo that reacts like defend...which isn't even available for sale?