Wisconsin Farm Land Grab

[DoggyDaddy]

I get the whole union thing. I guess the point I was making is that teddy made all that sound appealing and it does. So my question is if it sounds so appealing when foreign owned companies do it then why can it not be just as appealing if US owned companies were to do it? I think we all can agree that we would prefer US companies play that role to strengthen and preserve our own sovereignty as a nation.

Because US companies aren't doing it. They're not even trying. They're going for the slave labor wages and cheap real estate in foreign countries. The Chinese, Japanese, Indians and Koreans have figured out how to come here, pay at or near union wages without any union dues. They employ Americans here, and whether or not profits leave the country? Those American wages stay here. So if anyone has a beef? Take it up with American companies and unions.

 

[Ingomike]

Because US companies aren't doing it. They're not even trying. They're going for the slave labor wages and cheap real estate in foreign countries. The Chinese, Japanese, Indians and Koreans have figured out how to come here, pay at or near union wages without any union dues. They employ Americans here, and whether or not profits leave the country? Those American wages stay here. So if anyone has a beef? Take it up with American companies and unions.

I truly do not believe this is true. Please explain how a “company“ from China, a communist country, owned by the communists, is competing in a capitalist market when their government wants them here, or they would not be here, and supports them being here?

This part of the slight of hand to fool Americans. How about the real reason is to defeat American companies with their government blessing and subsidies while we debate the purity of capitalism…

 

[xwing]

If the owner of the land wants to sell it, and the buyer wants to buy it, I see no problem. That is the nature of a free system.

Now, the government subsidies that make it so lucrative are another story. By messing with the free market, the government creates a disconnect between those who benefit from a product and those who pay for it...

 

[teddy12b]

Is that truly any worse than shipping jobs to a country controlled by drug cartels? Looking at you Ford, GM, and other "American" companies that shipped their manufacturing jobs to Mexico... And please spare me the whole "trope" argument. It's no different.

Thanks you for helping make this point. There's no difference between US companies owning land in foreign countries versus foreign companies owning land inside our borders.

 

[teddy12b]

I'm pro union, IF people have a choice to join or not and if customers have a choice to hire or not. I own and work at a company signed to three different labor unions. We have to compete for every job we get. They are trade unions, not plant unions and there's a difference. Our people have skilled trades that they take with them every day when they leave and as a contractor we compete to get the best craftsman at every trade we can. We compete by treating people right on everything to safety, pay, working conditions etc. I've got no problem at all with anyone making a union wage and frankly I'm proud of those who've earned it. Now when a union starts to allow people to slack off and show up drunk then it's a problem to deal with, but again you're not going to see that in the trades nearly like you will in a plant.

Yeah, I get China is communist, and their government sucks worse than ours, but what other country out there has a government setup exactly as ours which is apparently the only one on the planet that is somehow righteous. At some point we've got to work with people who are different than ourselves and at a minimum keep a healthy level of trade to avoid conflict. Name a country we've been at war at in the last 100 years where we aren't doing some international trade deals with them now as we speak.

 

[Ingomike]

Thanks you for helping make this point. There's no difference between US companies owning land in foreign countries versus foreign companies owning land inside our borders.

I truly do not believe this is true. Please explain how a “company“ from China, a communist country, owned by the communists, is competing in a capitalist market when their government wants them here, or they would not be here, and supports them being here?

This part of the slight of hand to fool Americans. How about the real reason is to defeat American companies with their government blessing and subsidies while we debate the purity of capitalism…

I love it when I ask questions and the posts go on like it was never asked.

 

[teddy12b]

I love it when I ask questions and the posts go on like it was never asked.

Were you really wanting an explanation on how that happens? I thought your question was rhetorical or just an off the wall comment. Yes, China is a communist country, but the individual companies there do have some ability to think for themselves.

A great example of how their system is works is going to play out over the next year or more. If you haven't heard of the issue they're having over there with "Evergrande" it's very similar to how we had an issue when Leman Brothers collapsed. (reference the movie "the big short"). In this particular case the central bank of China has known about their balance sheet issues and will let that company collapse on itself rather than let the problem flow through the entire system like an infection and take the whole thing down. The issue with the Lehman brothers was an entire system was created with no due diligence on any part of it. In the case of Evergrande, it's expected to collapse an have a negative effect on approximately 3% of their entire economy. I've heard this same speech given by a director from a major investment firm at an insurance conference, and again by a key note speaker at a yearly economic forum put on by our bank.

So, if you want to really know the ins and outs of how one company from one country buys land and starts a business in a different land, there's plenty of information out there for you to look up.

Now, do you have any other questions you asked, feel entitled to have answered and weren't? Happy to help.

 

[Ingomike]

Were you really wanting an explanation on how that happens? I thought your question was rhetorical or just an off the wall comment. Yes, China is a communist country, but the individual companies there do have some ability to think for themselves.

A great example of how their system is works is going to play out over the next year or more. If you haven't heard of the issue they're having over there with "Evergrande" it's very similar to how we had an issue when Leman Brothers collapsed. (reference the movie "the big short"). In this particular case the central bank of China has known about their balance sheet issues and will let that company collapse on itself rather than let the problem flow through the entire system like an infection and take the whole thing down. The issue with the Lehman brothers was an entire system was created with no due diligence on any part of it. In the case of Evergrande, it's expected to collapse an have a negative effect on approximately 3% of their entire economy. I've heard this same speech given by a director from a major investment firm at an insurance conference, and again by a key note speaker at a yearly economic forum put on by our bank.

So, if you want to really know the ins and outs of how one company from one country buys land and starts a business in a different land, there's plenty of information out there for you to look up.

Now, do you have any other questions you asked, feel entitled to have answered and weren't? Happy to help.

It is very naive to believe that China is just another capitalist competitor. A communist country’s failure at real estate speculation and running a central bank are no suprise.

Where is the end game? What happens when we sell everything to foreign owners? Where is the line you are not comfortable with?

 

[cobber]

Why? That "Chinese" farmland is surrounded by Americans. Do you not think we could prevent that food grown there from being exported by force if necessary? It's going to take American trucks to get it to the ports, and American port workers to load the ships.

And if conditions occur that would create a "worldwide famine", then we've got other problems to worry about besides who owns the land.

Yet somehow Stalin and the Soviet government managed to extract the grain production from Ukraine in the 1930s, creating famine and resulting in the holodomor. Basically did not affect citizens in other parts of the USSR, and especially urban residents.

Holodomor | Facts, Definition, & Death Toll

Holodomor, man-made famine that claimed millions of lives in the Soviet republic of Ukraine in 1932–33. Because the famine was so damaging, and because it was covered up by Soviet authorities, it has played a large role in Ukrainian public memory, particularly since Ukraine gained independence...

www.britannica.com

Wonder if Dems and the ruling classes would be okay with something like this if it was largely limited to flyover country?

 

[teddy12b]

It is very naive to believe that China is just another capitalist competitor. A communist country’s failure at real estate speculation and running a central bank are no suprise.

Where is the end game? What happens when we sell everything to foreign owners? Where is the line you are not comfortable with?

I don't think of them as just another competitor, but rather one more person sitting at a very diverse table where we don't all agree. The evergrande wasn't a failure of the nation, it was a failure of one particular company within that country, and as much as I hate to say it, the way their central bank manages things it's going to prevent one collapse from turning into a domino effect like our lehman brothers did. Time will tell on that one, but this next year will be interesting to watch.

I like the question asking about the end game, because I think we as a nation or more certainly as individual states need to put a limit on foreign ownership of land within our borders. My line in the sand would be when I'm being told what to do by a foreign government and not my own. When an outside group is trying to step outside of its wheel house and bark orders where it doesn't belong, then there's an issue that needs fixed.

With this place in Wisconsin, the surrounding area will determine how well this new place runs. If people chose to work there, if companies chose to sell the supplies they'll need, if the community supports that business or choses not to will make the difference on that places survival. I think "we the people" tend to forget that we hold the purchasing power and vote with our dollars.

 

[flylo]

This may have been said as I didn't read all the posts but Bill Gates did own over 1/2 the farmland in the US.

 

[mmpsteve]

This may have been said as I didn't read all the posts but Bill Gates did own over 1/2 the farmland in the US.

Not trying to be a wise guy here, but Gates' 250,000 acres equals about .000279 percent of America's 896 million farm acres. That's less than 1/30 of 1%.

That's assuming what I read is true. I guess there could be a vast conspiracy and cover-up.
.

 

[ditcherman]

This may have been said as I didn't read all the posts but Bill Gates did own over 1/2 the farmland in the US.

Where is this crap coming from? That’s ridiculous.

ETA: Well covered in posts 23, 38, 39 43, page 2 and 3 along in there. Seriously, where did you get this? Don’t tell me google.