Woman dies after shooting at Merrillville Shoot Point Blank

[Brad69]

I have assembled a theory on this.

1. People do not have the same level of intelligence.

2. People do not have equal motor skills, eyesight, depth perception.

3. People that do not handle firearms on a regular basis are a hazard to themselves and others.

4. You can come up with all the “Rules” you want some people are too stupid to follow them.

5. The “range” is not the place to teach basic stuff do that in a classroom or at home.

 

[BE Mike]

Everyone on a range is a RSO and should call a "CEASE FIRE!" when they observe an unsafe practice. Anyone who fails to "call out" unsafe practices at a range is part of the problem.

 

[ECS686]

I have assembled a theory on this.

3. People that do not handle firearms on a regular basis are a hazard to themselves and others.

4. You can come up with all the “Rules” you want some people are too stupid to follow them.

Brad69 just adding. While I agree at most of what you stated there’s a little more to it. Just what I have seen both in membership only “private” ranges as well as many public ranges. Specifically 3 and 4

As far as #3 just because someone handles firearms a lot doesn’t always equal sound practice and proficiency. I see more muzzle swept appendages by folks sporting that NRA training patch. Military/LE Tee shirt or you name it patch or apparel. Many of them when unloading or returning/retrieving their handgun from the box.

Also when Locking the slide to the rear by those tacticool everyone loves forward slide serrations etc. Like Seniority at a job. Handling guns everyday doesn’t always mean they know what they are doing (look at some of the awful firearms issues some Military and LE folks have done and they all have that magical minimum training standards)

#4 There are stupid people no doubt and the 4 firearms rules are there for a reason. What I see is most folks that get in trouble over rule 1. They follow rule 1 treat all guns like they are loaded. The problem is a lot of folks only follow it UNTIL they think they are unloaded. Then rule 1 is forgotten.
Running agency ranges as well as seeing some public ranges stuff. When I politely correct that issue far more times the response is “it’s not loaded” then I shut the range down to address the Elephant in the room.

Some places would do a better job in putting a cap on shooters to say a 1RSO to 6 shooters on a leisure session and a 1 Actual Instructor to 3 shooters in a beginner class during live fire anyway

 

[Twangbanger]

Cooper’s Fourth is covered by NRA’s First. Coopers First isn’t a “Rule” at all. It’s an easily disproven logical fallacy…

3 Rules, not 4. Maybe just 2 rules. - Notes from KR

On several of the blogs I read, people often refer to the “4 rules of gun safety” and quote the rules defined by Jeff Cooper of Gunsite. They are All guns are always loaded! Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy! Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights...

blog.krtraining.com

Anyway, Cooper’s Four Rules have helped keep a lot of people safe so there’s that.

/threadjack

In the sepia-toned "Sportsman Era" of America (here coarsely defined as X number of years before you or I were born), folks didn't routinely carry guns for martial purposes at anywhere near the frequency of today. As a result, the typical American only encountered an actual, loaded firearm in one of two places: in the military, when "sarge" issued live ammo to everyone for "qual," or when loading-up for the annual "deer camp with grampaw." Even soldiers had unloaded weapons much of the time.

There was an additional "rule" everyone silently carried in their minds in those days:

"KEEP GUNS UNLOADED UNTIL READY FOR USE."

It was a standard, accepted prudent practice, and as a result, countless people got shot due in part to the presumption of this rule being uniformly in place.

Today, fortunately we realize unloaded guns are mostly useless. So Cooper found the need for a shockingly-stated first rule to counter-act this historical expectation.

It's an anachronism which comes across to some as apocryphal. It appears as a logical fallacy to those who take it "literally - not seriously," and don't understand the historical nuance of how Americans were taught to interact with guns in the past.

 

[Hookeye]

Saw too much on indoor ranges. I gave up on them decades ago. Did shoot one recently, but it was a private deal where those in attendance were known safe.

Outdoor ranges, seen some stupid stuff there. Seen folks get heated, and threatening, over real and bogus safety violations.

Only real diff, private outdoor clubs tend to have less idiots. They still got em, just lesser number IMHO.

So......pay attention, pick days/ times when you get the place to yourself.

Makes for an enjoyable stress free experience.

 

[cbhausen]

In the sepia-toned "Sportsman Era" of America (here coarsely defined as X number of years before you or I were born), folks didn't routinely carry guns for martial purposes at anywhere near the frequency of today. As a result, the typical American only encountered an actual, loaded firearm in one of two places: in the military, when "sarge" issued live ammo to everyone for "qual," or when loading-up for the annual "deer camp with grampaw." Even soldiers had unloaded weapons much of the time.

There was an additional "rule" everyone silently carried in their minds in those days:

"KEEP GUNS UNLOADED UNTIL READY FOR USE."

It was a standard, accepted prudent practice, and as a result, countless people got shot due in part to the presumption of this rule being uniformly in place.

Today, fortunately we realize unloaded guns are mostly useless. So Cooper found the need for a shockingly-stated first rule to counter-act this historical expectation.

It's an anachronism which comes across to some as apocryphal. It appears as a logical fallacy to those who take it "literally - not seriously," and don't understand the historical nuance of how Americans were taught to interact with guns in the past.

You just made the case for NRAs Three Rules and reinforced why they ordered as they are. By the way, “Ready for Use” includes guns for personal protection whether carried or staged for defensive purposes.

 

[mmpsteve]

Being drunk or high and then visiting a gunshop seems to be a thing.

Usually come in as a group too.

The LGS just north of me has a big sign on the door that you cannot miss: If you smell like weed, DO NOT ENTER!

.

 

[Len H]

This is not all that uncommon. I can think of possibly 3 here’s in Indy area and at least 1 more at Applied Ballistics in Laff.
Sad.

The one at Applied Ballistics in Lafayette was a suicide, not a negligent discharge, that is comparing apples and oranges.

 

[dekindy]

Most ranges will not rent a firearm to a solo shooter on their first visit to guard against suicides.

Shoot Point Blank Indy North had a suicide several years ago. Almost no blood so other shooters thought it was a heart attack.

I am surprised that there is not more emphasis put on what to do if you lose control of your firearm. Seldom happens but when it does people often end up shooting themselves trying to recover the firearm.

 

[CallSign Snafu]

I was at Shoot Point Blank in Carmel yesterday. Seemed safe the way the lanes are designed. However, as I was leaving I walked past a guy that smelled like he just smoked pot. I sure hope they didn’t allow him to shoot.

I used to work the range counter at shoot point blank, not that location. I always enjoyed telling those folks that they couldn't shoot because "You smell like a Cheech and Chong show". Also, if they had really bad muzzle discipline while looking at rental firearms I would tell them we offer classes, but I'm not putting you on the range. Got all kinds of lovely responses to those situations never ever felt bad about telling someone who didn't belong on the range that I wasn't putting them on the range.