Women in combat arms units.

[kedie]

Commission to recommend allowing women in combat units - News - Stripes

Army Mulls Women in Combat Arms Units

IMO, this is a bad idea.

 

[E5RANGER375]

dont agree with it.

edit: just one reason is that women (in majority) are not physically capable of performing the requirements of (for example) Special Operations missions. while yes there will always be some that can perform to a higher standard, we all know how todays butt hurt and politicaly correct world works. they wouldnt just allow in the most qualified who went through the same school as the men with the men, they would open the door wide open and create a seperate school for just women which would lower the standard. dont feel bad ladies. most men don't make it either.

 

[qonorio]

I don't believe women should be in a combat arms MOS.

 

[grimor]

next thing you know they'll be letting gays in too.... errrr

 

[hornadylnl]

They attached some female brigade combat medics to us back in 97. I don't remember there being any issues from it. It helped that they broke the ugly stick though. As long as the females wanting to do this have the right mindset and not the "I am woman, hear me roar" types, it shouldn't be an issue.

 

[dross]

My first few years in the Army, I was with the 82nd Abn. Later, I worked on the HAWK missile system, which is now discontinued.

Women have been allowed in Air Defense Artillery, the only combat arms field that allows them. Causes lots of problems.

The HAWK system required very little physical strength to operate once it's up and running. Unfortunately, one of the requirements is that you had one hour from the time the nose of the first truck hit the site to have the system up and operational. This requires thirty people to work at a dead run, super intense, for an entire hour. The physical demands are extreme for that hour. Cable reels weighing three hundred pounds have to be unloaded and rolled out, all the radars and launchers have to be hand leveled using jacks, and the 300' two inch diameter cables have to be run between all the pieces of equipment.

A platoon of women would NEVER be able to do it. So, how do you manage if you have several women on the crew? You assign them the less strenuous, more technical jobs. Those are the jobs a man has to EARN, however, by first doing the difficult work of unloading, dragging, and jacking. Then after he learns, he gets to move up to the more mental tasks. But if you have women, you have no choice.

Also, there is a great deal of resentment at the different physical standards. Of course you can't expect a woman to do as many pushups as a man. But the disparity in the amount of situps and the two mile run is ridiculous, and it isn't grounded in reality.

There's more. If a woman becomes pregnant, she can't be relieved of her position. She continues to hold her leadership position, even though she cant fulfill the duties. Usually they move her to the orderly room. Now she's being rated as the leader of the squad or platoon, while some E-6 or E-5 holds performs the actual duties, but he can't be rated for doing it. She gets the credit for what her unit does while she works a cush job in the orderly room. I knew of one woman who held down a squad leader position for years while she had several children. She beat all the men to E-7, including all the poor saps who performed the actual duty she was being rated for.

In my eleven years in the military, I met exactly one woman who could perform physically like a man. She would have been a relatively weak man, but she could hold her own. Exactly one.

Mixed sex units are a bad idea. And this is coming from a guy who thinks homosexuals serving won't cause as much disruption as some claim. I think women mixed with men is much more harmful to readiness than allowing gay men to serve.

 

[Tactical Dave]

 

[spearheadersarge]

On my last deployment we had 4 women attached to my unit. One started having sex with someone the first week she was there and later filed sex. harrasment charges against senior nco's. One started exhibiting psych problems and was sent home, two were fairly ok but felt sleighted thay didn't get to go on many missions. They all performed ok but it really was just a pain in the butt because of them. The "Joe's" really resented the ladies since they all got single rooms. Also seemed to be a lot of favoritism IMO. I vote NO! but I ain't in charge!

 

[jdhaines]

My first few years in the Army, I was with the 82nd Abn. Later, I worked on the HAWK missile system, which is now discontinued.

Women have been allowed in Air Defense Artillery, the only combat arms field that allows them. Causes lots of problems.

The HAWK system required very little physical strength to operate once it's up and running. Unfortunately, one of the requirements is that you had one hour from the time the nose of the first truck hit the site to have the system up and operational. This requires thirty people to work at a dead run, super intense, for an entire hour. The physical demands are extreme for that hour. Cable reels weighing three hundred pounds have to be unloaded and rolled out, all the radars and launchers have to be hand leveled using jacks, and the 300' two inch diameter cables have to be run between all the pieces of equipment.

A platoon of women would NEVER be able to do it. So, how do you manage if you have several women on the crew? You assign them the less strenuous, more technical jobs. Those are the jobs a man has to EARN, however, by first doing the difficult work of unloading, dragging, and jacking. Then after he learns, he gets to move up to the more mental tasks. But if you have women, you have no choice.

Also, there is a great deal of resentment at the different physical standards. Of course you can't expect a woman to do as many pushups as a man. But the disparity in the amount of situps and the two mile run is ridiculous, and it isn't grounded in reality.

There's more. If a woman becomes pregnant, she can't be relieved of her position. She continues to hold her leadership position, even though she cant fulfill the duties. Usually they move her to the orderly room. Now she's being rated as the leader of the squad or platoon, while some E-6 or E-5 holds performs the actual duties, but he can't be rated for doing it. She gets the credit for what her unit does while she works a cush job in the orderly room. I knew of one woman who held down a squad leader position for years while she had several children. She beat all the men to E-7, including all the poor saps who performed the actual duty she was being rated for.

In my eleven years in the military, I met exactly one woman who could perform physically like a man. She would have been a relatively weak man, but she could hold her own. Exactly one.

Mixed sex units are a bad idea. And this is coming from a guy who thinks homosexuals serving won't cause as much disruption as some claim. I think women mixed with men is much more harmful to readiness than allowing gay men to serve.

QFT. Can't find anything I disagree with.

 

[Expat]

As long as they get to shower with the guys, I can foresee no problems arising.

 

[dross]

As long as they get to shower with the guys, I can foresee no problems arising.

Women and men sleep in the same tents in the field.

 

[Expat]

Women and men sleep in the same tents in the field.

Will the Army guys be able to keep up with impregnating them as well as the Navy guys did in Gulf 1?

 

[kedie]

Will the Army guys be able to keep up with impregnating them as well as the Navy guys did in Gulf 1?

You've never hung out with a bunch of E1-E4 11B's have you.

 

[IndyGunworks]

NO NO NO NO and NO we had women mechanics attached to our infantry unit in iraq... nothing like having to carry the weight of two soldiers. if i were still in and they allowed this, i would be gone in a heartbeat. sometimes things just need to be said as they are. women are not up to the combat arms task, period. dont let the good one or two fool you that its ok to open the doors to all women... look at the movie GI jane, its ALL drama.

 

[E5RANGER375]

just like in the workforce in civilian jobs. you can find women getting the easy task and the men will get stuck with the ****ty jobs making the same pay but working twice as hard. but if you ask the women they still think they are doing more and getting treated unfairly. WTF????

and for the record ... I have never had to force any woman to take off her clothes or spread her legs. they are more than willing. my point? same numbers of women and men are sluts. The men arent forcing the women to get pregnant, and in most cases the woman probly lied and said she had it covered. yeah, never fall for that one boys!!!

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Army Aviation has been considered a Combat Arm since the 80's; we started getting women pilots in the mid-late 80's here in the Indiana Guard. The first couple ones we got didn't fare well and soon left for other career fields. The ones we've had lately, though, seem to be able to meet the same standards as the men - for doing the job.

Female crew chiefs, however, are perfectly able to perform inspections, but only a couple can pull their weight as mechanics. Once again, their lack of upper body strength works against them. From the time we integrated women into line aviation units, we always had to segregate them from the men - separate tents, separate latrines, etc. We've had the usual scandals resulting from from the infidelities that occur when men and women are put into close proximity of each other and away from their spouses. In fact, according to rumor, we've even had a case where the wife of a Guard soldier ran off with one of our female NCOs -but Don't Ask, Don't Tell.

For the most part, soldiers behave themselves and our Guard units seem to be pretty representative of our society's current mores, but the thing that absolutely p!$$es me off about women in the Army is that they don't have to meet the same APFT standards as the men. If they want to be equal, they ought to damn well PERFORM like equals.

 

[INGunGuy]

I am sorry, but I have to agree, women in combat units are a really bad idea. Oh and for the record, we had NONE, Zero women on board ANY aircraft carrier I was deployed on while serving, and I went to Desert Shield, Desert Storm, Provide Comfort, etc...

INGunGuy

 

[mike8170]

No, no, and a resounding NO! I spent my whole career in the Infantry, and the best reason for staying there was no rear-echelon, which also meant no women. I saw too many issues arise when there were women around. My last Iraq tour we had a maintenance section with female soldiers and a female medic, which caused a load of problems.

 

[kedie]

if i were still in and they allowed this, i would be gone in a heartbeat

There are a lot of things I miss about being in the Army, but stuff like this makes me glad I'm out.

Female crew chiefs, however, are perfectly able to perform inspections, but only a couple can pull their weight as mechanics. Once again, their lack of upper body strength works against them.

Now imagine one of those same females in an infantry platoon. Carrying an M-4, ammo, grenades, pro mask, body armor, nods, ruck, maybe even a 60mm mortar tube or base plate.....

but the thing that absolutely p!$ me off about women in the Army is that they don't have to meet the same APFT standards as the men. If they want to be equal, they ought to damn well PERFORM like equals.

This! They want to be equals except for the stuff that might cause them to wash out.

 

[hornadylnl]

I went to Spain for training for 2 weeks. They just started implementing females in their infantry. We saw a chick carrying a ma duece with barrel to her 113. That's about 90#. The guys didn't help them.