Zionsville Proposed Firearm Ordinance

[amboy49]

Some may recall a thread regarding a proposed ordinance by the Town of Zionsville to prohibit the discharge of firearms in the "rural" area of the Town. I cannot locate the prior thread so I am starting a new thread with updated information. The Town Council kicked the can, so to speak, down the road by turning the issue over to the Town Safety Board for public input and, ultimately, a recommendation back to the Town Council. The recommendation, we have been advised, could be (1) take no action (2) adopt the ordinance as proposed or (3) make changes to the proposed ordinance.

Today the Safety Board received public input with interested persons expressing their opinions pro and con. Of interest, the folks in favor of an ordinance to prohibit the discharge of firearms voiced, among others, the following concerns:

Noise pollution - unsupported with any scientific documentation
Pollution of the Eagle Creek watershed due to lead migration via various ground aquifers - see abov
Air pollution due to lead dust in the air - see above
Inability to ride bicycles, walk, jog, or drive on the various county roads - with no incidents to report
Inability to take an afternoon nap due to gun shot "noise"
Inability to enjoy outdoor activities due to fear of being hit from a stray round
Traumatization of domestic livestock and household pets
An unproven accusation of injury to a horse from a gunshot wound

There were more - but you get the idea. There have been no "safety" issues in recent memory regarding the discharge of a firearm in the Zionsville area. The complaintants have chosen to voice their opposition to shooting in the guise of public safety. However, they can't factually state any safety violations have occurred and are, therefore, relying on emotional not factual issues.

The Safety Board oft repeated that no ordinance was actually proposed - in direct contradiction to a draft that has been publicly distributed and was listed as an agenda item at the last Town Council meeting.

The reason I post this is to remind all those who participate and enjoy the shooting sports that they should continually monitor the political motives and postions of their governing bodies. Thinly disguised at being concerned for public safety, I submit the Town Council is actually trying to perform social engineering that meets with their view of Second Amendments rights and landowners rights. Many do not take advantage of exercising their specific right to vote in national and local elections. I would remind everyone the issue now confronting Zionsville gunowners can easily occur in other neighboring communties.

The next chapter in this saga will occur at a subsequent Safety Board meeting. I will try to provide an update as additional events unfold.

 

[85t5mcss]

Thanks for the reminder and update. I work and have friends in the Zionsville area. One is even close to Chris'? property.

 

[tallerthan28]

wow I live in Zionsville and i have never heard this, thanks for pointing it out for me.

 

[JGalt]

Amboy has a nice summary of the meeting! Thanks for your work on this, since some of us were not able to attend.

There are a couple of things that people need to know that will have some bearing on this issue. First, Tim Haak, one of our town councilmen, is now working for Chad Pittman, at the Indiana Economic Development Corporation. Why is this important? Mr. Pittman is a well known and very well connected local developer. The largest single contributor to six of the seven town councilors was a political action committee that was funded by developers and real estate lobbyists. Mr. Haak and Ms. Ulmer were the largest recipients of that money. How does this affect things? Consider that an earlier post of mine pointed out that developers looking to sell new properties would not take kindly to having some soccer mom walking up to the front door of a model home, or some site selector walking around a retail development site while hearing the sound of gunfire in the distance. This area contains some of the largest swathes of undeveloped land in the Indy metro area. Now that the real estate market is showing some signs of life, developers smell profits, and far be it from them to let pesky gun owners stand in the way of making money, especially since the town council has a planned unit development ordinance which streamlines development.

Also, those of us driving around Zionsville last fall couldn't help but notice how many Obama yard signs and bumper stickers were evident. Many of the people who moved here aren't exactly conservative. Maybe it's time for residents of rural Zionsville to consider de-consolidating, and forming their own town, which you'd have to do to ensure that you wouldn't be the target of a hostile annexation by either Whitestown, or Zionsville, and to have your own zoning commission and government, to avoid control by outsiders.

As a parting comment.... Amboy correctly pointed out that we need to pay attention to what is going on with local government. There are ALWAYS hidden agendas, and we cannot rely upon local media to inform us. What local government is afraid of are legal consequences, and electoral consequences to their actions. We should never let them forget that fact.

FWIW,

J. Galt

 

[Spike Jones 5 2002]

Money talks very load loader than a vote.

Amboy has a nice summary of the meeting! Thanks for your work on this, since some of us were not able to attend.

There are a couple of things that people need to know that will have some bearing on this issue. First, Tim Haak, one of our town councilmen, is now working for Chad Pittman, at the Indiana Economic Development Corporation. Why is this important? Mr. Pittman is a well known and very well connected local developer. The largest single contributor to six of the seven town councilors was a political action committee that was funded by developers and real estate lobbyists. Mr. Haak and Ms. Ulmer were the largest recipients of that money. How does this affect things? Consider that an earlier post of mine pointed out that developers looking to sell new properties would not take kindly to having some soccer mom walking up to the front door of a model home, or some site selector walking around a retail development site while hearing the sound of gunfire in the distance. This area contains some of the largest swathes of undeveloped land in the Indy metro area. Now that the real estate market is showing some signs of life, developers smell profits, and far be it from them to let pesky gun owners stand in the way of making money, especially since the town council has a planned unit development ordinance which streamlines development.

Also, those of us driving around Zionsville last fall couldn't help but notice how many Obama yard signs and bumper stickers were evident. Many of the people who moved here aren't exactly conservative. Maybe it's time for residents of rural Zionsville to consider de-consolidating, and forming their own town, which you'd have to do to ensure that you wouldn't be the target of a hostile annexation by either Whitestown, or Zionsville, and to have your own zoning commission and government, to avoid control by outsiders.

As a parting comment.... Amboy correctly pointed out that we need to pay attention to what is going on with local government. There are ALWAYS hidden agendas, and we cannot rely upon local media to inform us. What local government is afraid of are legal consequences, and electoral consequences to their actions. We should never let them forget that fact.

FWIW,

J. Galt

Remember money talks loader than a vote

 

[cbrooke]

Well on this topic it does appear that I am the cause of much of the noise (pun). Sadly many of the claims brought forward were simply lies. It was claimed that people have been on my property shooting with out my presence. Well I reviewed our security cameras and that is false. Next it was said on a specific date I fired 693 rounds. However on that day in question I was shooting skeet and I went through a single box of clays (135). I do not recall firing 5-6 times at each clay. I have my bad days but not that bad. Someone even claimed that last weekend I detonated a device like the one at the Boston marathon bombing...false it was a .58 Springfield civil war musket (albeit loud with a double charge). So it would appear in absence of fact the opposition is creating "evidence". Hopefully this too shall pass.

 

[DennisTheMenace]

[FONT=&amp]I'm sorry that I couldn't attend that Safety Board meeting. I did read an article about it in the Times Sentinel and was generally unimpressed and rather troubled. In the paper:

"We have had several people express a desire for allowing the discharge of firearms for varmint control, game shooting and recreational purposes," said Board President Steve Mundy. "We have no intent to pass an ordinance today, but we want to gather input so we have a better understanding of the breadth and scope of the issue." One of the topics at the center of the debate was an injury to a horse at the residence of Dr. Sally Booth, a 16-year resident and member of the National Rifle Association. "The shooting that is going on in our neighborhood is being characterized as a Second Amendment issue, and it is not," she said. "It is a safety issue, and my account of the gunshot wound of a horse that resides on my property will illustrate." See Wednesday's Times Sentinel for the full story. - See more at: Residents on both sides of shooting debate » Local News » Zionsville Times Sentinel[/FONT]"

I clicked on the link above and couldn't find the rest of the article but they left out one important thing. That the Board agreed that safety is the up most importance but then said that the supposed horse injury is a safety issue and would like to consider the issue.

Bovine Excrement! The County Sheriff's investigation concluded the horse was not injured via a firearm. There is no irrefutable evidence to the contrary. What ever you do, do not underestimate the talks behind the scenes with this Town Council. I would feel real uncomfortable right now if I were a pro gun 2nd amendment citizen. Oh, wait, I am. Yeah, I'm uncomfortable right now.

 

[dnurk]

Tagging this newest thread.

 

[zippy23]

Imagine my quote coming from the movie 300........" THIS....IS.....LIBERALISM!!!!!"

 

[DennisTheMenace]

The Zionsville Sentinel has a full story, starting on the front page, complete with a picture of the horse's wound. Reading the article the paper puts doubt in the unknowing's mind. Looks like a full court press. Safety Board meeting Monday, September 30, 9am (of course) Town Hall.

When I voted for this annexation of Union and Eagle townships, with it's hybrid "Urban" and "Rural" areas we were told that law enforcement would still be provided by the Boone County Sheriff's Dept in the "Rural" area I live in. We also don't get any other services, such as trash pick up, recycling, snow removal, heavy trash pick up, or limb and brush clean up, as the "Urban" area gets. Our tax rate is to be lower also. In return, the reorganized Town of Zionsville would determine zoning and building approvals. The only way the "Rural" areas become "Urban" areas is if the properties get swallowed up by surburban subdivisions (house farms I call 'em) that get all the listed amenities such as utilities, snow plowing, etc., and only after a one or two year period of being developed. I've a few subdivisions around me but they're on septics and running utilities to them would be damn expensive!

Sheriff Campbell has investigated and concluded that Mr. Brooke is innocent and that is good enough for me.

 

[DennisTheMenace]

The Times now has the article on line... at least part of it.

The Story of Solomon Horse's injury at center of gun fire debate » Local News » Zionsville Times Sentinel

 

[j706]

The yuppies are migrating into the rural areas. They bring with them the believe that they are superior to us normal folks. The only thing that matters to them is what they want, how they think things should be and that they know best. They will lie, cheat or do anything else to get their way. Many of them are down right nasty people . Do not give in to anything pertaining to them. I have some that moved from the city and purchased property that butts up to mine. It sucks bigtime.

 

[DennisTheMenace]

Be advised that the next Safety Board meeting on September 30th has changed the start time from 9am to 8:30am. Discussion of the discharge of firearms in the Rural District is on the agenda.

 

[GMtoblat]

There are a couple of things that people need to know that will have some bearing on this issue. First, Tim Haak, one of our town councilmen, is now working for Chad Pittman, at the Indiana Economic Development Corporation. Why is this important? Mr. Pittman is a well known and very well connected local developer. The largest single contributor to six of the seven town councilors was a political action committee that was funded by developers and real estate lobbyists. Mr. Haak and Ms. Ulmer were the largest recipients of that money. How does this affect things? Consider that an earlier post of mine pointed out that developers looking to sell new properties would not take kindly to having some soccer mom walking up to the front door of a model home, or some site selector walking around a retail development site while hearing the sound of gunfire in the distance. This area contains some of the largest swathes of undeveloped land in the Indy metro area. Now that the real estate market is showing some signs of life, developers smell profits, and far be it from them to let pesky gun owners stand in the way of making money, especially since the town council has a planned unit development ordinance which streamlines development.
J. Galt

This sounds like a familiar plot line from...Sons of Anarchy! hmmm

 

[JGalt]

Thanks for bringing the article to the attention of other local residents, Dennis. It needs to be pointed out that there are serious questions about the injury and the cause. Just as importantly, note that this article does NOT present much on the other side, which is no accident. Clearly, certain interests locally want to gin up some public support for restrictions, or at least provide some form of cover for the council members like Ulmer who are strong supporters of restricting firearms usage. I do hope that Mr. Brooke will bring his legal counsel to the meeting tomorrow and present a spirited defense. I am interested in finding out whether or not he approached the paper in order to set the record straight. The publisher of this paper is your classic media liberal, which is no surprise. We can discuss the real owners of the paper at a future time.

 

[JGalt]

Did anyone attend the Safety Board meeting? Would be nice to see how things went.

Thanks!

 

[DennisTheMenace]

I attended and come away thinking that the Safety Board will do more than send a recommendation of "no action" as they should. I don't think they'll use an ordinance either. Judging from the comments today I suspect they'll try some sort of transitional zoning scenario. Something along the lines if you live x miles within a development you'll now be classified as "Transitional Urban Residential" instead of "Rural Residential".. Guy Relford schooled the board members on what residential zoning means in the RURAL areas of the state and reiterated the basic tenets of gun safety and that the citizens in the rural areas do not need to fear responsible gun owners.

The other side was more of the emotional "It's for the children and we want to save our quaint Zionsville atmosphere that is so near and dear to our hearts" Blah, blah, blah.

 

[DennisTheMenace]

I attended and come away thinking that the Safety Board will do more than send a recommendation of "no action" as they should. I don't think they'll use an ordinance either. Judging from the comments today I suspect they'll try some sort of transitional zoning scenario. Something along the lines if you live x miles within a development you'll now be classified as "Transitional Urban Residential" instead of "Rural Residential".. Guy Relford schooled the board members on what residential zoning means in the RURAL areas of the state and reiterated the basic tenets of gun safety and that the citizens in the rural areas do not need to fear responsible gun owners.

The other side was more of the emotional "It's for the children and we want to save our quaint Zionsville atmosphere that is so near and dear to our hearts" Blah, blah, blah.

BTW, that was just the Cliff notes from what I sat in on. I left early, having another appointment, shortly after the board called upon the attorney representing the anti gun crowd to hear more from him.

 

[sheller]

I live in Zionsville and was not aware this was going on. Thanks for keeping us up to date. I work from home and could easily attend Safety Board meetings in the future.

 

[DennisTheMenace]

Mr. Sanford back at last Monday's Council meeting imploring them to take action....

Town of Zionsville » 11/4/2013 7:00PM ? Zionsville Town Council Meeting

Go to the audio link and Mr. Sanfords plea starts at 1:42