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  1. #1
    Sharpshooter yeahbaby's Avatar

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    Judge Releases video of Daniel Shaver shooting


  2. #2
    Master Gabriel's Avatar

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    Medium speed. Moderate drag.

  3. #3
    Expert eatsnopaste's Avatar

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    No reason for this man to have been killed. Can one of our legal brethren please tell me why he couldn't have been hand-cuffed while he was face down on the floor, legs crossed and arms stretched out in front of him? Why continue to give him orders and make him crawl towards you? it almost seems like he kept ordering him to do things, waiting on him to make a mistake.

  4. #4
    Expert

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    That was quite simply a "Simon Says" control game. You lose - you die. There are some poorly trained police in this country that have became a danger to everyone around them. And it's not just one cop - it's the entire Dept. Every officer in that hallway went along with this insanity. Whoever is teaching this technique should be on trial. We now have a handful of "trainers" traveling around the West and SW U.S. teaching these techniques. I have heard some of them lecture and it's truly disturbing. Justifying these kind of tactics by claiming "officer safety" or " I felt threatened" or "That's how I was trained" doesn't justify it or make it legal under our Constitution. It simply enables it to get worse over time. Being a cop is a very difficult job. Some people do not have the required temperment. This one clearly did not and was incorrectly trained. The suspect should have been ordered to prone out face down and not move and then been cuffed while another officer covered him. Playing Drill Sgt."Simon Says" is just absurd.
    Last edited by Drail; 12-15-2017 at 14:25.

  5. #5
    Plinker

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    While I think (hope) they will be guilty in the following civil suit, this post explains what was likely going on in the LEOs heads at the time and why it wasn't considered criminal.

  6. #6
    Grandmaster HoughMade's Avatar

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    Liable. "Guilty" is a criminal law only term.
    ​Bullies suck. They also make you stronger.

  7. #7
    Plinker

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    Quote Originally Posted by eatsnopaste View Post
    No reason for this man to have been killed. Can one of our legal brethren please tell me why he couldn't have been hand-cuffed while he was face down on the floor, legs crossed and arms stretched out in front of him? Why continue to give him orders and make him crawl towards you? it almost seems like he kept ordering him to do things, waiting on him to make a mistake.
    Not a Lawyer but 31 years of Municipal and Fed LE experience. I also cringed at that shooting. And while as bad as it was fell within the Graham Vs Conner supreme Court decision almost always referred to in an after action review. That is why he was found not guilty. The Prosecutor (to me) felt there was enough there to warrant the charge on the shooting but to be honest had to know what would happen. It was probably done for public appeasement more than anything. Had nothing to do with his dust cover which as a major department violation they terminated him. An inscription night look bad but a good (or seniority good) shoot is a good shoot. Break department policy you are still good shooting wise just not employment wise.

    Dealing with the training side of LE as a trainer and from what I have read about this case (and obviously the video) the Officer over reacted while legal to the law was still a bad decision. What some LEO's (primarily the young ones with EGOs) forget is as a LEO you should strive to make a mole hill out of a mountain bot the other way around.

    And just because you can doesn't mean you should!

  8. #8
    The BOFH GPIA7R's Avatar

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    Philip Brailsford has been rehired by Mesa PD.

  9. #9
    Grandmaster CPT Nervous's Avatar

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    That's good. Glad to hear everything worked out for him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fargo View Post
    I'm picturing you curbstomping yourself, ala Fight Club. All while yelling, "don't worry ma'am, he'll leave you alone after this."
    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    If you want a real vintage denim hat, you'll probably have to push a hipster off his fixed gear bicycle and, while he's collecting his PBR cans, grab it off his head and run.

  10. #10
    Sharpshooter

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    Worked out a whole lot better for him than the other guy...
    Eating beavers just to help save trees.

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