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  1. #1
    Master spencer rifle's Avatar

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    Common Ground for Right and Left?

    This may end up as a long post.

    My oldest son is considerably left on a number of issues (religion, the environment, meat, population, etc.) but not necessarily on guns. He lives on the east coast, where he regularly interacts with "those types of people." He has some of the left's blind spots (successful entrepreneur who hates capitalism, avid consumer of capitalist products while talking it down, etc.), but wants to see what common ground the left and right might share about "gun control."

    We had a rather long discussion today about this. My opinions:
    1. We have compromised enough. He wanted specifics, which I will supply when time allows.
    2. The left makes no effort to understand what they are proposing to limit
    3. Anything that can lead to a registry is a non-starter - we're too close already
    4. Most leftists don't want a discussion, they want to lecture you, you baby killer

    His opinions:
    1. The right seems to make no effort to be empathetic to survivors of gun violence (in his view)
    2. Too many school shootings
    3. Too many people not securing their firearms

    Things we agreed on:
    1. Existing laws must be enforced, especially 4473 and straw buyer violations
    2. More thorough reporting to NICS from more agencies
    3. Don't trust the government (at least I trained him right in that)
    4. Shooting a Mosin and a shotgun are very similar experiences
    5. Emotional reactions require an emotional response - logical arguments won't get through the filter

    I sent this article to him, which just came out today:
    https://townhall.com/columnists/walt...ng-us-n2555471

    It has the extra added bonus of me being able to call him a racist if he doesn't believe and support!
    His response - doesn't like the attitude: too condescending.
    My response - RACIST!

    So, INGO, what other resources and opinions and common ground can we supply to him? Besides directing him to this page.
    Rights are only as secure as the ability to wield sufficient force to defend them. - J. Neil Schulman

    “There's nothing wrong with the country a bad recession couldn't fix.” - Irving Kristol

    "He's not a tame lion..."

    1 Samuel 13:19

    Psalm 149:6

  2. #2
    Grandmaster KellyinAvon's Avatar

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    Dr John Lott’s studies. He’s an Economist, not a gun guy.
    INGOer #25,448

  3. #3
    Expert Robert Richardson's Avatar

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    How about if both sides started respecting the Constitution and the Bill Of Rights. That's the only common ground that matters.
    1911s are like Glocks except they are for grown-ups.

  4. #4
    Grandmaster HoughMade's Avatar

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    All I have to say is that if my son can't live close to home, I'm glad he lives in Kentucky.

    I applaud the search for common ground.
    ​Bullies suck. They also make you stronger.

  5. #5
    Semi-Moderator
    Bigtanker's Avatar

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    Dig into the crime stats directly from the FBI.
    https://ucr.fbi.gov

    Compare murder ratesfrom 1995 and 2018. Murders are down 40%. (Source PDF--- https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...Oa4c13oiqlBN5C )

    Although the media would have you think otherwise.

    Then actually look into the murders. What percentage of them are gang related or suicides?

    Research what was considered a "mass shooting" in 1995 vs what the requirements they have now.

    Also look into when the states started to issue some form of carry license/permits. That all started gaining steam in the 90's. CC goes up in the 90's, murders go down. And the whole Clinton AWB of 1994. How did that effect anything?

    Maybe, just maybe with the correct facts he can understand we are actually safer with loosening of gun restrictions.


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  6. #6
    K_W
    K_W is offline
    Grandmaster K_W's Avatar

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    Things we agreed on:
    1. Existing laws must be enforced, especially 4473 and straw buyer violations
    2. More thorough reporting to NICS from more agencies
    3. Don't trust the government (at least I trained him right in that)

    Reverse that and you will see a big problem... Never trust the government, especially when it can put on some list that you don't know you are on until you are denied your rights.

  7. #7
    Master fullmetaljesus's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Richardson View Post
    How about if both sides started respecting the Constitution and the Bill Of Rights. That's the only common ground that matters.
    Boiled right down to the only logical end.

    But to expand on this a bit to help ass understanding.

    Look at the historical definition of words in the 2A.

    It spells out the intentions very clearly when you understand the meaning.
    WTS/WTT 9mm and 308 win reload dies.

  8. #8
    Expert Robert Richardson's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by fullmetaljesus View Post
    Boiled right down to the only logical end.

    But to expand on this a bit to help ass understanding.

    Look at the historical definition of words in the 2A.

    It spells out the intentions very clearly when you understand the meaning.
    Yes, take them as the way they were written, not what you can read into them.
    1911s are like Glocks except they are for grown-ups.

  9. #9
    Lone Ranger

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    Common ground conversations might start by addressing the anti-gun term "gun violence."
    -----------------------------------------------
    Done, done, and I’m on to the next one...
    -----------------------------------------------

  10. #10
    Grandmaster Tactically Fat's Avatar

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    Come at this from a strictly numbers viewpoint.

    Get the statistics directly from the FBI on the total number of deaths by firearm. Then you subtract out all the suicides. Then you can divide that remaining number by the population of the country. Multiply that number by 100 and you'll get the actual percent of murders.

    If you want some more, ONLY take the number of school shooting murders and divide that by the population to get your %.

    Hint that most of us on INGO already know: The resulting % is lower than a rounding error.

    Amazing Grace, how sweet was her sound.

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