Johnson County at it again....

[LPMan59]

For the ump-teenth time, you have the option to say "no." If PC existed, trust, that I wouldn't be asking for permission.
I'm sorry that in as you grow older, you only see LE as agents of the govt. But lets be fair, the majority of the time people come into contact with law enforcement, it isnt for a good reason. That in itself helps create the image, as when LE shows up, typically some is in trouble.
I would suggest that anybody interested in the day to day workings of law enforcement (other than testaments here or from the media) take a ride-a-long. It's not all speed traps, consent searches, and let's see who I can **** off....

I'm game if anybody else is.

would i be allowed to carry or would you disarm me?

 

[rambone]

It's hard enough for them to understand how gun laws and carry licenses work HERE for RESIDENTS, much less how they apply to residents of another state. This guy actually thought there was a statewide database for permit holders and even thought he could check some sort of MN database as well.

I hate how misinformed people can be, even people in positions of authority who should be well aware of the law. I had an argument with a friend of mine who is a cop about the same thing. HELLO: WE DON'T HAVE REGISTRATION. :barf:

Isn't it the citizens responsibility to know their own rights?

No, I honestly don't think it is. Why not "Mirandize" people about their right to say "NO" when the police are trying to snoop through your car? In fact I might make a new thread for this topic.

Asking to search isn't crossing a line.

Do you prefer a more REactive approach to police work or a PROactive approach to police work?

YES, for the love of God, YES. You can't be our mommies and keep us safe from dangerous objects. Banning inanimate objects is a fool's errand and is nothing more than Nanny Statism. Guns don't commit crimes whether they have papers to go with them or not. I would be ecstatic if police gave up the "Fishing expedition" mentality -- since the only purpose they serve is to confiscate harmless property and violate people's rights anyways. If you adopted a REactive approach then it would mean that you are focusing on real, actual, legitimate crimes; live violence, theft, forgery, rape, etc. Not "possession of banned item X."

Maybe there is just something fundamentally wrong with the way law enforcement is conducted. I'm sure there are many good leo's out there, but maybe the system itself is to blame.

Yes, the tangled web of laws that we adopt leave us on a direct and unchangeable course toward Statism.

I have a Cuban friend who is always telling me how safe cuba is. There criminals stay in jail and jail sucks really really bad. He tells me there are no repeat offenders. Not because they changed their ways in jail, bc they are scared to death to go back.

Maybe we need a balance? Lessen the frequency of incarceration maybe limit it to only crimes against persons. But make jail a really really bad place.

Definitely. Don't punish people for having "illegal objects," punish them for committing crimes against others, with actual victims. No victim -- No crime.

My question to any LEOs as far as fishing expeditions-Are you required to ask for consent to search every couple stops or so? Would you get in trouble by your superiors if you never asked or tried to search unless you had PC?

No more fishing? That would turn them back into Peace Officers.

 

[E5RANGER375]

Just out of curiosity, does "fishing" also include random license plate checks?

yep sure does in my opinion.

you cant just walk up to me on the sidewalk and ask for my ID if im doing nothing wrong. so why, if im obeying all traffic laws can you run my plate and identify me? more BS from those who think they are above us.

 

[Keyser Soze]

yep sure does in my opinion.

you cant just walk up to me on the sidewalk and ask for my ID if im doing nothing wrong. so why, if im obeying all traffic laws can you run my plate and identify me? more BS from those who think they are above us.

This goes back to the driving is a right now a privileged. Ive arrested some really bad people from a license plate check.

 

[E5RANGER375]

This goes back to the driving is a right now a privileged. Ive arrested some really bad people from a license plate check.

I dont care if you arrest Osama Bin Laden on a random license plate check. Its wrong. Driving is not a right or a priveledge in my opinion either. but if it were either it would be the peoples to decide on as we are the ones who pay to make it possible. we also grant limited authority to the police to enforce laws, not oppress.

 

[kevinj110]

^what he said

 

[Hotdoger]

For the ump-teenth time, you have the option to say "no." If PC existed, trust, that I wouldn't be asking for permission.
I'm sorry that in as you grow older, you only see LE as agents of the govt. But lets be fair, the majority of the time people come into contact with law enforcement, it isnt for a good reason. That in itself helps create the image, as when LE shows up, typically some is in trouble.
I would suggest that anybody interested in the day to day workings of law enforcement (other than testaments here or from the media) take a ride-a-long. It's not all speed traps, consent searches, and let's see who I can **** off....

I'm game if anybody else is.

The point is most people don't know they can say no. You are trained in "the law", they are not. Most are brought up to trust LEOs and do what they ask. Bascialy LEOs take advantge of the ignorant to acheive their means. ie warrantless searches.

 

[rambone]

Just out of curiosity, does "fishing" also include random license plate checks?

I would lean towards "yes," but I'm not sure that we can quite lump vehicle searches together with what you suggested. State-issued license plates are in plain view by definition and drivers have no misconception that they are private in any fashion. The inside of your vehicle is another story.

 

[AJBB87]

Oh for Heavens sake, I don't have to spend a day in the House or Senate to know what I expect them to do. I don't have to sit in court to know how I want a judge to interpret law. I also don't have to visit a car factory to know the quality I expect in a new car.
We know what your job is and we know how we want you to police our communities. Stop acting like we are to dumb too understand, you sound much too much like an elected official.

Since you seem to know it all... What happens after death?

 

[ATM]

Since you seem to know it all... What happens after death?

I'll take this one:

First thing is to hide the body.

 

[AJBB87]

I'll take this one:

First thing is to hide the body.

, I was thinking, get rid of the evidence, but they're both probably near the top of the list.

 

[Armed Citizen]

This goes back to the driving is a right now a privileged. Ive arrested some really bad people from a license plate check.

Just curious, a random license plate check does that mean "profiling"?
One other question, Can't an officer just say "I smell weed" that gives PC right? And after the search say "Oh, I thought I smelled weed". When in all actuality they didn't smell weed to begin with, but if they say they did it gives them PC.

 

[jsharmon7]

Oh for Heavens sake, I don't have to spend a day in the House or Senate to know what I expect them to do. I don't have to sit in court to know how I want a judge to interpret law. I also don't have to visit a car factory to know the quality I expect in a new car.
We know what your job is and we know how we want you to police our communities. Stop acting like we are to dumb too understand, you sound much too much like an elected official.

What "you" expect them to do? Well what you expect them to do is different from what your neighbor may expect them to do. Or your co-worker. Or anyone else for that matter. So how will we reconcile all these differing opinions? Maybe people could volunteer to act as a representative for everyone, and then people could vote on those people who volunteered based on their opinions and experiences. Then whomever the concensus has voted for will then act as a representative to make decisions that are in the best interest of the majority. That way, instead of one person making all the decisions and dictating what they do or don't like, it would be fair for more people. Does this sound familiar?

 

[ThrottleJockey]

Just out of curiosity, does "fishing" also include random license plate checks?

YouTube - Automated License Plate Recognition

 

[Kutnupe14]

yep sure does in my opinion.

you cant just walk up to me on the sidewalk and ask for my ID if im doing nothing wrong. so why, if im obeying all traffic laws can you run my plate and identify me? more BS from those who think they are above us.

Then let's deal with hypotheticals then:

If your car was stolen, and a law enforcement officer (not looking for that car) ran the plate at random and discovered that the vehcile was stolen, should the theif get off based on officer's "fishing" with no PC or RS to do so?

-OR-

If your 12 year old was kidnapped by a person with active warrants, and a random plate check notified law enforcement that the person had an active warrant, in which he is stopped subsequently arrested and your child returned to you.... would you have a problem with the method in which your child was returned to you, thinking that there's a "better" option? And if he get's off because (using your viewpoing as the status quo), an officer stopped him without PC/RS, you'd wouldnt have issue with that?

 

[Hotdoger]

Then let's deal with hypotheticals then:

If your car was stolen, and a law enforcement officer (not looking for that car) ran the plate at random and discovered that the vehcile was stolen, should the theif get off based on officer's "fishing" with no PC or RS to do so?

-OR-

If your 12 year old was kidnapped by a person with active warrants, and a random plate check notified law enforcement that the person had an active warrant, in which he is stopped subsequently arrested and your child returned to you.... would you have a problem with the method in which your child was returned to you, thinking that there's a "better" option? And if he get's off because (using your viewpoing as the status quo), an officer stopped him without PC/RS, you'd wouldnt have issue with that?

A friends car was stolen in Indy. Recovered in Indy with three yutes in it. Stolen property in trunk and firearm under front seat.


Poof NO CHARGES.




And to stick it in the guys eye even more, to get the beat up car back he had to pay towing and storage fees.

 

[Kutnupe14]

A friends car was stolen in Indy. Recovered in Indy with three yutes in it. Stolen property in trunk and firearm under front seat.

Poof NO CHARGES.

And to stick it in the guys eye even more, to get the beat up car back he had to pay towing and storage fees.

Are you saying that these guys weren't even arrested? If that's what you're saying, then there's more to that story.

 

[fwacfred]

Well, there really isn't a short version of this story so here it goes. The wife sent me out for lottery tickets, I went and got them along with a gallon of gas for the chainsaw. On my way back to her house a Johnson County Sheriffs Deputy decided to pull me over because one of the tail lights on her truck is taped. He came to the window and asked for my papers (license and registration) so I gave them to him. He came back to the window and handed them to me and then told me why he pulled me over, I told him I figured.....Then he started to turn and walk away, paused, and asked if I had anything illegal in the truck. I told him no and he began to list things like: illegal weapons, illegal knives, marijuana, cocaine, heroin, meth amphetamines....somewhat pausing between each just long enough for me to say no. THEN he asked me if I had ANY weapons at all in the truck, to this I said well since you put it that way I have a permit to carry and I have a pistol in my waist band but I know Indiana has reciprocity with Minnesota and that I am NOT required to inform him. Now I've got his undivided attention, hands both on the wheel and the whole routine. He had me remove the pistol and place it on the dash, and asked me if there were any more guns in the vehicle, since it was a quick trip to the store I didn't have thank God! He asked if he could search the vehicle I'm not certain if this was before or after he found out I had a gun, I told him I would rather he didn't but if he felt the need to go right ahead as there's nothing there. Well, he asked me to get out and stand in front of the truck, took my pistol to his car, unloaded it and returned with my holster and cartridges handing them to me. I stood in front of the truck for nearly 45 minutes while he searched to no avail. then he told me to get back in and get warm. At this point he took my permit and DL back to his car and made every attempt he could to find a reason to harass me further. When he finally realized there was no wrong doing on MY part he came back, handed me my pistol and began to lecture me about courtesy to LEOs blah blah blah. I told him that I appreciated his need to feel safe but I also had a right to be safe and feel safe and that I am NOT required to inform him. He interrupted going on about courtesy to officers of the law again and I told him I was NOT going to debate the issue and would try to consider this in the future (basically just so I could go as I have already given it all the consideration it is worth, that's why I handled it the way I did). He told me not to reload until I was clear of the area and began to walk back to his car at which point I hollered back to him "am I free to go now officer?" he said yes you can leave and I did. Now I realize I didn't have to let him search or disarm me, but my previous experience with Johnson County has made me understand that it would only mean a few more hours of standing in the cold while they made it a capital offense bringing in multiple more squad cars, etc....I believe I asserted my rights effectively to the point that he may think about them a bit more, while also giving him no reason to think badly of legally armed persons. I also got back home in a SOMEWHAT reasonable amount of time. I'm more than ticked off about the experience, but what more could I really have done? I mean without being further inconvenienced without any real reason. I think it was sort of a compromise on my part but seriously who wants to stand in the cold with no more than a sweatshirt on any longer than I did? What says you?

Not sure I understand after reading your post. What does the reciprocity with IN and MN statement mean?

Never mind, read a little further on and saw that you are a resident of Minnesota.

 

[Hotdoger]

Are you saying that these guys weren't even arrested? If that's what you're saying, then there's more to that story.

Yep arrested, released with no charges. The victims mom works for a circuit court judge. She called and asked that they at the least charge them with conversion. She was told "they are just kids".

IMPD at its finest.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

More like MCPA than IMPD.