Hassled by Buffalo Wild Wings for OC at Dupont, Fort Wayne

[LegatoRedrivers]

This is apples and oranges. First off, having a gun has never been shown to have an ill affect on someone else's health. Only using one.

I've done research on that subject as well, and from what I've seen, every study that has every shown second-hand smoke to be harmful was either fully financed by an anti-smoking organization (with the results they wanted in mind), lambasted in peer review, or thrown out of federal court for being wildly inaccurate. Second hand smoke also contains no proteins or protein-carbohydrate complexes that could cause an allergic reaction. It can exacerbate existing allergies or severe asthma, especially in someone highly sensitive to it, but so could strong perfume. Smoking can kill you, second hand smoke is harmless. The smoking ban is based on false and faulty science.

Just had to get that out there.



</threadjack>

 

[bassplayrguy]

I've done research on that subject as well, and from what I've seen, every study that has every shown second-hand smoke to be harmful was either fully financed by an anti-smoking organization (with the results they wanted in mind), lambasted in peer review, or thrown out of federal court for being wildly inaccurate. Second hand smoke also contains no proteins or protein-carbohydrate complexes that could cause an allergic reaction. It can exacerbate existing allergies or severe asthma, especially in someone highly sensitive to it, but so could strong perfume. Smoking can kill you, second hand smoke is harmless. The smoking ban is based on false and faulty science.

Just had to get that out there.



</threadjack>

I agree with you 100 percent on this. The jet exhaust and exhaust fumes walking down the street is alot more dangerous.

 

[bassplayrguy]

To respond with, "no thanks but I will leave if you want me to" might just make them consider that their request was somehow unreasonable.

Or it might not. [/quote]

No police were called and they finished their meals and left. I think the manager got the hint that they would not be bullied into rediculous requests.

 

[tyrajam]

I really like this thread because it is making a lot of us think about how we would react to a situation we may never have thought about. I'm sure
the OP never planned exactly what to do if a manager asked him to cover his firearm. Who would think that would happen? Considering that this was an unexpected request, he probably responded better than most of us would have!

One thing though. There have been several comments that one point of open carrying is to educate others to the rights of gun owners and start a conversation. If that is a goal-even if it's not the primary goal-think about how the other onlookers were educated.

I'm sure the anti-gun twit who complained to the manager about being "alarmed" by the mere sight of the handgun exposed on the OPs person was enjoying every second of the tense scene they created between the OP and the manager. These troublemakers always do.

Obviously whoever complained (if anyone even did) isn't worth the waste of a conversation. These anti nuts aren't going to listen to reason and logic. But think about the majority of patrons in a restaraunt who probably don't have a strong opinion on carrying one way or another. If our goal is to make them see carrying a firearm as normal, and show them that they should be comfortable around responsible people who are carrying, how do we do that? Now refusing a managers simple request to cover it-not dissarm, but just pull your shirt over it-and arguing back and forth, even if it's politely, that seems like it is accomplishing the absolute opposite. It's now a little tense, a "How come that guy with the gun is arguing with the manager?" situation. That would make some people very uncomfortable. Instead of noticing a thoughtful gun owner giving a smile and untucking his shirt as a favor to those around him, they saw an armed man arguing with staff, and probably breathed a sigh of relief when he left. It's kind of the opposite of swaying public opinion to feel comfortable around guns.
I've never met the OP, but he did pm me a very helpful answer to a question I once posed. I don't think he acted like an ass, but there is a big difference between calling someone an ass and saying they acted like one. I think EVERYONE has acted like one at some time, I know I have!

They guy who responds "no thanks" to the walmart greeter who asks to see his receipt as he walks out with a tv is within his rights, yet in my opinion, he is acting like an ass. I've read several threads on the consumerist bragging about refusing to show their receipts. Unless you have signed a contract to be a member, like at sams club or costco, you are not required to prove that that your property is not stolen. Innocent until proven guilty. However, refusing to follow the policy of a store and exerting your right to ignore the minimum wage earning greeter who asks for your receipt-that kind of is acting like an ass. Of course this isn't a perfect analogy, there is no such thing as a perfect analogy. But come on, if we want to live in a civil society, we need to act civil to those around us. Even if we don't have to.

 

[finity]

It's C'est la vie.

Doh'!

I knew that...

That's what I get for posting in the middle of the night.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[finity]

I really like this thread because it is making a lot of us think about how we would react to a situation we may never have thought about. I'm sure
the OP never planned exactly what to do if a manager asked him to cover his firearm. Who would think that would happen? Considering that this was an unexpected request, he probably responded better than most of us would have!

One thing though. There have been several comments that one point of open carrying is to educate others to the rights of gun owners and start a conversation. If that is a goal-even if it's not the primary goal-think about how the other onlookers were educated.

Obviously whoever complained (if anyone even did) isn't worth the waste of a conversation. These anti nuts aren't going to listen to reason and logic. But think about the majority of patrons in a restaraunt who probably don't have a strong opinion on carrying one way or another. If our goal is to make them see carrying a firearm as normal, and show them that they should be comfortable around responsible people who are carrying, how do we do that? Now refusing a managers simple request to cover it-not dissarm, but just pull your shirt over it-and arguing back and forth, even if it's politely, that seems like it is accomplishing the absolute opposite. It's now a little tense, a "How come that guy with the gun is arguing with the manager?" situation. That would make some people very uncomfortable. Instead of noticing a thoughtful gun owner giving a smile and untucking his shirt as a favor to those around him, they saw an armed man arguing with staff, and probably breathed a sigh of relief when he left. It's kind of the opposite of swaying public opinion to feel comfortable around guns.
I've never met the OP, but he did pm me a very helpful answer to a question I once posed. I don't think he acted like an ass, but there is a big difference between calling someone an ass and saying they acted like one. I think EVERYONE has acted like one at some time, I know I have!

They guy who responds "no thanks" to the walmart greeter who asks to see his receipt as he walks out with a tv is within his rights, yet in my opinion, he is acting like an ass. I've read several threads on the consumerist bragging about refusing to show their receipts. Unless you have signed a contract to be a member, like at sams club or costco, you are not required to prove that that your property is not stolen. Innocent until proven guilty. However, refusing to follow the policy of a store and exerting your right to ignore the minimum wage earning greeter who asks for your receipt-that kind of is acting like an ass. Of course this isn't a perfect analogy, there is no such thing as a perfect analogy. But come on, if we want to live in a civil society, we need to act civil to those around us. Even if we don't have to.

+1

Good post.

 

[Rookie]

In response to the Walmart greeter...

It's a whole lot quicker and easier for me to say no than to stop, dig out my receipt, hand it to the greeter, and wait for them to satisfy their curiosity simply because they can.

 

[Roadie]

In response to the Walmart greeter...

It's a whole lot quicker and easier for me to say no than to stop, dig out my receipt, hand it to the greeter, and wait for them to satisfy their curiosity simply because they can.

Gotta say I agree...

If I had something of real value like a TV, yeah, I can see stopping, but getting stopped with a cart full of groceries because my milk isnt in a bag?

Ridiculous..

 

[DocGlock86]

Actually they do have the ability to "ban" guns in their private property when a sign is posted. You can chuckle as you walk by but if someone did catch a climpse of your gun you in for some trouble. if the police are called I can pretty much guarantee it would result in the loss of your handgun license.

I think that if you read forum member Billb's ongoing thread about St. John you would see that you would easily loose your license.

When you carry into a restuarant that has posted a sign restricting guns then you are breaking the law and you will easily be labeled as not being a "proper person" by the state police.

While I do not like the policy I do have to comply with it. But I can also not go there and give them my money also. By your logic should also carry into a school, an airliner or a federal building.

I call

1. I have worked for two establishments that had "no gun" policies. I have had to ask several people to cover up or take it outside. Still to this day I have yet seen anyone loose there LTCH. If cops did get called more than likely it would end up as a trespass and end of story.

2. You are not breaking a law when you walk into a place (unless school or fed building) with a "no gun" policy. You are breaking a rule that was put in place by the establishment.

AND
3. As said in 2. carrying on school or Federal property is law. You cannot compare BWW to a Federal building.

 

[Beau]

They guy who responds "no thanks" to the walmart greeter who asks to see his receipt as he walks out with a tv is within his rights, yet in my opinion, he is acting like an ass. I've read several threads on the consumerist bragging about refusing to show their receipts. Unless you have signed a contract to be a member, like at sams club or costco, you are not required to prove that that your property is not stolen. Innocent until proven guilty. However, refusing to follow the policy of a store and exerting your right to ignore the minimum wage earning greeter who asks for your receipt-that kind of is acting like an ass. Of course this isn't a perfect analogy, there is no such thing as a perfect analogy. But come on, if we want to live in a civil society, we need to act civil to those around us. Even if we don't have to.

So Wal-Mart treating a customer like a criminal isn't them being an ass. The customer who refuses to let themself be treated like a criminal is the one being the ass.?? I don't get it.

 

[jsharmon7]

I guess I look at the possibility of the beeper going off and the greeter checking my receipt as part of the cost of doing business with Walmart. If I decide that the cost isn't worth it, then I'll stop shopping there. How many folks honestly don't know that this situation occurs at Walmart? If you know the possibility exists, you still choose to do business with Walmart, and then complain when the greeter asks for your receipt then that says a lot about you as a person. Let me just lay it out there for everyone: it appears that Walmart doesn't trust its customers and may ask to see your receipt if the beeper goes off. If that's unacceptable to you then I'm sure Meijer, Target, Kroger, Marsh, O'Malia's, IGA, etc. would love to have your business. Whatever you decide, just don't complain about it or give the greeter a hard time, because it's as much your fault as it is Walmart's.

Sorry for the threadjack/rant.

 

[finity]

I guess I look at the possibility of the beeper going off and the greeter checking my receipt as part of the cost of doing business with Walmart. If I decide that the cost isn't worth it, then I'll stop shopping there. How many folks honestly don't know that this situation occurs at Walmart? If you know the possibility exists, you still choose to do business with Walmart, and then complain when the greeter asks for your receipt then that says a lot about you as a person. Let me just lay it out there for everyone: it appears that Walmart doesn't trust its customers and may ask to see your receipt if the beeper goes off. If that's unacceptable to you then I'm sure Meijer, Target, Kroger, Marsh, O'Malia's, IGA, etc. would love to have your business. Whatever you decide, just don't complain about it or give the greeter a hard time, because it's as much your fault as it is Walmart's.

Sorry for the threadjack/rant.

+1.

Also, isn't that the exact reason why those anti-theft devices were installed in the first place? So they could catch people trying to steal from them? If you didn't steal it then you should have no other problems. Show your receipt & you're on your way.

Can anyone here honestly say that if you ran a business & used those loss prevention devices that you wouldn't do EXACTLY the same thing if the beeper went off? If not then what's the point of spending the money to put them in?

I will say, though, that I don't like the random receipt checks that they do at times but that has been only during the christmas shopping season wen there is a higher than normal amount of theft. Even then, even though I don't like it, I kind of understand the need for it.

Aren't those measures a reasonable way to try to keep YOUR prices lower by not needing to pass the cost of theft on to YOU?

 

[Roadie]

+1.

Also, isn't that the exact reason why those anti-theft devices were installed in the first place? So they could catch people trying to steal from them? If you didn't steal it then you should have no other problems. Show your receipt & you're on your way.

Can anyone here honestly say that if you ran a business & used those loss prevention devices that you wouldn't do EXACTLY the same thing if the beeper went off? If not then what's the point of spending the money to put them in?

I will say, though, that I don't like the random receipt checks that they do at times but that has been only during the christmas shopping season wen there is a higher than normal amount of theft. Even then, even though I don't like it, I kind of understand the need for it.

Aren't those measures a reasonable way to try to keep YOUR prices lower by not needing to pass the cost of theft on to YOU?

You said "if the beeper went off", agreed, I can see that, but that isnt what I have a problem with..

For example, the WalMart by me checks everyone walking out the door if they have anything that is not in a bag in their cart. So, one time I had a full cart of bagged groceries, and an unbagged gallon of milk. They stopped me for my receipt for the milk.
Yep, you got me, I paid for $75 worth of groceries, and stole a $2 gallon of milk.

I got into a discussion about their policy with the nite manager. I told him my wife used to work loss prevention and she was trained that by law, you cant detain anyone without suspicion of theft. He said:

"I am former law enforcement, and I am telling you we have a legal right to stop and detain anyone we want, for any reason we want.."

Edit:
I also pointed out to him that Employee theft is higher than Shoplifting, and he told me I didnt know what I was talking about, lol

According to the 2006 National Retail Security Survey, retail operations suffered an average annual inventory shrinkage percentage of 1.57% in 2006.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retail_loss_prevention#cite_note-0

• 46.8% from employee theft,
• 31.6% from shoplifting

 

[Mr. Habib]

+1
Can anyone here honestly say that if you ran a business & used those loss prevention devices that you wouldn't do EXACTLY the same thing if the beeper went off? If not then what's the point of spending the money to put them in?

In the majority of the times I have observed those alarms going off I never see any employes even look at the exit, much less actually try to stop anyone. I have seen several people stop at the door and wait and finally give up when no one comes to inspect their receipt.

 

[dom1104]

At approximately 1200 hours on 24 MAR 2011, I entered this thread on INGO, and after 40 pages I fail to see what the big hullabaloo is.

I personally, could not care less either way. Whatever.

 

[bassplayrguy]

When to beeper goes off I just keep walking.

 

[Benny]

You said "if the beeper went off", agreed, I can see that, but that isnt what I have a problem with..

For example, the WalMart by me checks everyone walking out the door if they have anything that is not in a bag in their cart. So, one time I had a full cart of bagged groceries, and an unbagged gallon of milk. They stopped me for my receipt for the milk.
Yep, you got me, I paid for $75 worth of groceries, and stole a $2 gallon of milk.

I got into a discussion about their policy with the nite manager. I told him my wife used to work loss prevention and she was trained that by law, you cant detain anyone without suspicion of theft. He said:

"I am former law enforcement, and I am telling you we have a legal right to stop and detain anyone we want, for any reason we want.."

Edit:
I also pointed out to him that Employee theft is higher than Shoplifting, and he told me I didnt know what I was talking about, lol

I would LOVE to see a Wally World employee(or better yet employeeS, because they'd need team mates) try to stop and detain me. It would be a good drinking story to say the least.

 

[Plinker]

You said "if the beeper went off", agreed, I can see that, but that isnt what I have a problem with..

For example, the WalMart by me checks everyone walking out the door if they have anything that is not in a bag in their cart. So, one time I had a full cart of bagged groceries, and an unbagged gallon of milk. They stopped me for my receipt for the milk.
Yep, you got me, I paid for $75 worth of groceries, and stole a $2 gallon of milk.

I got into a discussion about their policy with the nite manager. I told him my wife used to work loss prevention and she was trained that by law, you cant detain anyone without suspicion of theft. He said:

"I am former law enforcement, and I am telling you we have a legal right to stop and detain anyone we want, for any reason we want.."

Edit:
I also pointed out to him that Employee theft is higher than Shoplifting, and he told me I didnt know what I was talking about, lol

Not that it couldn't happen, but I have a hard time believing that a person would leave a job as a LEO to become the night manager at a Walmart. I would've pressed him a little more about being 'former law enforcement'. Maybe he was in the 'Police Explorers' in high school...

 

[KGreenwell]

MK2JA When I first read this thread I was disturbed with the way you handled this situation. I have since then read the majority of the posts discussing this issue. You have earnd my respect by the way you have handled youself in this thread. I still would have handled it differently but understand your comittment to your rights.

I wanted to reply to some of your supporter's comments (only a few) but I don't have the patience you do.

I look forward to future posts.

 

[Roadie]

MK2JA When I first read this thread I was disturbed with the way you handled this situation. I have since then read the majority of the posts discussing this issue. You have earnd my respect by the way you have handled youself in this thread. I still would have handled it differently but understand your comittment to your rights.

I wanted to reply to some of your supporter's comments (only a few) but I don't have the patience you do.

I look forward to future posts.

Agreed, Anyone that questioned his character, only needs to read his responses here to be proven wrong..