Had the police called on me

[jbombelli]

I disagree. If you don't believe in "shall not be infringed" then you are on the other side of the fence.

Exactly. There is no middle ground here. A person either believes our right to keep and bear arms "shall not be infringed", or believes it MAY be infringed in whatever manner the government decides is "reasonable", which is a subjective term ripe for abuse.

I have -zero- respect for anyone who believes in the latter, and am ashamed to call them my countrymen.. I wouldn't whizz in their mouths if their stomachs were on fire.

 

[thompal]

Rookie cites four different examples of objects that are "no different (than guns)." He then illustrates an example of the use of one of the four objects (a cell phone), by a person "walking down the street, talking on a cell phone." He further clarifies that this instance is when they "first came out."

Yes, and his illustration was that, at that time, anyone who HAD a cellphone was likely a criminal or a doctor. It wasn't the act of having on in their hand, it was the fact of ownership, since Rookie clearly stated that it was thought that the only people who HAD one was suspect.

You juxtaposed that to your (new) argument that anyone carrying a gun IN THEIR HAND was someone to be concerned about while seemingly implying that this was what everyone was arguing against.

THAT was your strawman: changing the premise of the debate so that people must argue for/against something they never claimed (i.e.- that OC is the same in their mind as carrying a gun IN HAND).

 

[GARANDGUY]

I was down in Lafayette with the family to do some shopping and went to HuHots for dinner. Evidently some customers said something to the manager and he called the police.

I was just about ready to get up and get another bowl when I see two LPD walk in, I kinda figured what they were there for and I was right. I got up and started walking to the buffet and here they come. The one officer said "Indiana is an open carry state, but it's not smart". I replied I disagree. He then said he was going to untuck my shirt and cover it up, I said no but not sure if he heard me or not. He went to reach for my shirt and I told him no again, he kinda blinked like he was surprised but stopped. He then said if I wouldn't cover it, the manager wanted me to leave. I didn't want to tick off my wife, so I told him if the manager was the one requesting, I would cover it up.

He then asked me to sit down at a empty table while his partner went to talk to the manager. And asked for my ID, I gave him my LTCH and he said I meant your Drivers license. I know I didn't have to give it too him, but I said the heck with it and did. He called it in and I came back clean. About this time his partner came back from talking to the manager and said okay he's fine with him staying as long as he covers it up. The officer told me thank you and to enjoy the rest of your dinner.

After we had finished eating I asked for the manager, and had a long talk with him about it. A very long polite but pissed talk. I told him I was pissed about having the police called on me and if he wanted me to cover it up he should of just came up to the table and asked, that's when he told me the regional manager was in the restaurant earlier and told him to call. I let him know that I would be contacting corporate and he told me that corporate is the one that told him to call, I also told him that I would be posting about it on several firearm forums, including the one I had heard about the place on, and that it has over 14k members.

My wife gave him a piece of her mind too, letting him know that it was pretty obvious we were just a family out for dinner and not there to rob and shoot up the place. And that our 5 year old daughter who was sitting there would of gotten quite upset if she had noticed the two LEO walking up and talking to her Daddy.

After he left the table, he had to have ran to call the regional manager and came back out just as I was about to walk out the door. He said that there was a misunderstanding and that they didn't call the police. And if I would the regional manager would like to speak with me. The RM apologized and said that they didn't call the police it must of been a customer, I told him what the manager said and he said he would get it straightened out and asked me to hand the phone back. They talked on the phone for a minute or two and then he hung up. He said he thought the RM had called because he told him about it and then walked away. But the RM and the district manager had talked and decided to not get involved. So I then reminded him what he said at the table, where he said he called and that he was told to, and then turned around and walked out the door.

Rep for you.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Yes, and his illustration was that, at that time, anyone who HAD a cellphone was likely a criminal or a doctor. It wasn't the act of having on in their hand, it was the fact of ownership, since Rookie clearly stated that it was thought that the only people who HAD one was suspect.

You juxtaposed that to your (new) argument that anyone carrying a gun IN THEIR HAND was someone to be concerned about while seemingly implying that this was what everyone was arguing against.

THAT was your strawman: changing the premise of the debate so that people must argue for/against something they never claimed (i.e.- that OC is the same in their mind as carrying a gun IN HAND).

How about we simply say that we agree to disagree?

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Let me as you this question. If a guy walks around with a double bladed axe strapped to his back because that is his preferred method of self-defense, and also his right, would you be concerned?

Why? I carry a gun.

Why are people scared of snakes? It's just a reptile. Whey are people scared of spiders? It's just a bug. The point is, people become conditioned to being scared of certain things.

Yes some people are conditioned if they see a gun and not a badge they assume that the person must be a criminal. Which is part of the reason I open carry. It helps "normalize" it, imo.

I think you make the OCer's point with this example. I would be concerned because it would be such an unusual sight. The OCers make the point that people need to see that normal mild-mannered folks carry guns. When it becomes commonplace, it will cease to scare as many people.

Exactly.

How about we simply say that we agree to disagree?

I can live with that.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

And a slight follow up. Seems there was no police report made, and possibly no 911 call either. At least no 911 through Tippecanoe county, a young dashing, duck egg eating barrister on this site is helping me to see if it was perhaps forwarded to the Lafayette PD.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

From the police report, someone named Ernest L. called the police. I just called the lafayette huhot, and was informed that he no longer works there. So an employee did call the police on me and someone has lied about who did.

 

[serpicostraight]

From the police report, someone named Ernest L. called the police. I just called the lafayette huhot, and was informed that he no longer works there. So an employee did call the police on me and someone has lied about who did.

did anybody named ernest L. ever actually work there? there might be more to this than meets the eye. im putting tin foil helmet on standby.

 

[n9vmo]

I have spent the last 12 hours on and off reading this thread mainly because the original thread was hijacked.

OC is your right, if you want to exercize it, then by all means do so. I prefer to CC when I can and if I am going somewhere that I know I cannot carry (my son's school) I will leave it at home. When I go to work, it gets locked in the car like the law allows. I feel no compelling reason to OC and only OC when I am at the range, otherwise I keep it covered up.

If someone wants to OC, fine...but I feel that they are just trying to draw attention to themselves...I prefer to act like a mouse at a cat show, stay in the shadows and act IF the need arises, otherwise I will act like every other law abiding citzen but confident in the knowledge that IF the need arsies, I will be there if needed.

Nomex undies are now donned...

 

[ATM]

If someone wants to OC, fine...but I feel that they are just trying to draw attention to themselves...

We know that the majority of criminals avoid selecting armed citizens.

It makes sense that if we don't want to be the victim of a crime and really don't want to have to shoot anyone either, there's no reason to hide the fact that we are armed.

The occasional attention of law-abiding citizens who mean us no real harm is a rather small price to pay for this benefit and often turns into a positive or educational encounter.

But it's not for everyone.

 

[Beau]

I prefer to act like a mouse at a cat show, stay in the shadows and act IF the need arises, otherwise I will act like every other law abiding citzen ...

What, OC'ers aren't like every other law abiding citizen?

Question. If you have a security system do you post a sign in your yard and stickers on your windows? Or do you leave that stuff inside your house so the criminal can be surprised after he breaks in?

 

[n9vmo]

What, OC'ers aren't like every other law abiding citizen?

Question. If you have a security system do you post a sign in your yard and stickers on your windows? Or do you leave that stuff inside your house so the criminal can be surprised after he breaks in?

I never said or implied that OC'ers were not like other law abiding citizens, you read that into my statement.

Answer: My security system is my firearms. There are very few times during the day if at all that someone isn't at home, but for the point of argument, if I got a price break for advertising that I had a security system, then I would put the signage up, otherwise no signs.

 

[n9vmo]

We know that the majority of criminals avoid selecting armed citizens.

That is why I believe in the capability of everyone to carry. As Robert A. Heinlein said "An armed society, is a polite society".

It makes sense that if we don't want to be the victim of a crime and really don't want to have to shoot anyone either, there's no reason to hide the fact that we are armed.

I can't disagree with this, but there are times when OC can lead to more attention that I would rather not have to deal with.

The occasional attention of law-abiding citizens who mean us no real harm is a rather small price to pay for this benefit and often turns into a positive or educational encounter.

While I agree with this statement, there are also law-abiding citizens who DO mean us harm, by taking away our rights and no logical argument that anyone cares to make in our defence will change their minds. Again, it is an attention thing. You may be comfortable with attention, I on the other hand am not comfortable with it and choose to CC.

But it's not for everyone.

And I am not one of those that choose to OC. I will CC almost all the time, but I will only OC on my property or at the range.

 

[Spazzmodicus]

Question. If you have a security system do you post a sign in your yard and stickers on your windows? Or do you leave that stuff inside your house so the criminal can be surprised after he breaks in?

Not necessarily a good analogy. Most people won't take issue with somebody because their home has a security system, nor can the home owner get into much trouble for installing a security system.

People definitely have issues with OC'ers. They take issue with the OC'er directly and verbally, or indirectly by calling the police. You can get into trouble from "OC'ing gone wrong". What happens when some hot-headed individual puts their hands on you, then calls the cops.....and has lying friends present that verify "you started it" or even worse, that you pointed your gun at somebody? There you are with the gun strapped to your hip like John F'ing Wayne. Just because something like that has never happened to "me" doesn't mean it won't ever happen.

There are enough instances of 'incidence' cited on this forum alone to warn away those who want to stay out of trouble. For somebody to choose to OC after hearing the stories of others here indicates to me a misguided, adventuresome and reckless individual, one not fully realizing the responsibility or the potential consequences of their actions. Not trying to dis anybody.....just stating my somewhat experienced opinion.

 

[Spazzmodicus]

....The OCers make the point that people need to see that normal mild-mannered folks carry guns. When it becomes commonplace, it will cease to scare as many people.

There's nothing wrong with the concept. It works great on paper. The problem is that society simply won't support it at this time. The number of people whom are comfortably numb, dwelling in a false sense of security and their "police will protect me" mindset far outnumber those of us that know better.

By the time society is willing to embrace the above theory, it will likely be too late to implement it en mass or it will be illegal to do so in the approaching 'police state'.

 

[IndySSD]

So in all honesty would not it make more sense to carry the thing concealed and avoid all the other mess? It is a fact of life in our society that many people don't feel comfortable seeing someone openly carrying a firearm,especially in a family type place like you were at. Think about it man.

Just like Jeremy below, I was taught almost 30 years ago that only criminals need to hide their guns. I generally CC myself but sometimes it's not convenient or I lightly CC with a jacket over my carry and I need to take off my jacket for some reason.

Either way, I still believe that only criminals should feel like they HAVE to hide their weapons.

Hell when I was in high school 20 years ago probably 10% of student vehicles had shotguns or .22's in them during squirrel and Deer season. And guess what..... not one person was ever shot by any of those students.

Besides I was always told when I was growing up only a Criminal tucks their weapons in...

 

[Donnelly]

For somebody to choose to OC after hearing the stories of others here indicates to me a misguided, adventuresome and reckless individual, one not fully realizing the responsibility or the potential consequences of their actions. Not trying to dis anybody.....just stating my somewhat experienced opinion.

Wow.

Not trying to dis anybody? Really?

So how long have you been a contributing member of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence? The paragraph above sure sounds like the type of writing that you will find on their website.

 

[ElsiePeaRN]

There are enough instances of 'incidence' cited on this forum alone to warn away those who want to stay out of trouble. For somebody to choose to OC after hearing the stories of others here indicates to me a misguided, adventuresome and reckless individual, one not fully realizing the responsibility or the potential consequences of their actions. Not trying to dis anybody.....just stating my somewhat experienced opinion.

By this argument, no one should CC at a coffee shop or Wendy's or in the presence of a fireman either, or have a firearm in their vehicle during a traffic stop. All quite reckless, really.

 

[tv1217]

Oh hey, an OC debate, this is new

 

[SirRealism]

Oh hey, an OC debate, this is new

Yep, and this is the one that'll finally change my mind.
























Not.