Minimum Wage Increase in Chicago

[Dosproduction]

You have to solve the problem not add to it. And the problem is Inflation through the Federal Reserve. The problem is not how much we get paid it is how much our pay is worth. The devaluation of the dollar is the problem and until u fix that no amount of raising minimum wage is going to help. It is impossible for them to keep up with true inflation. They might be able to keep up with the inflation the government releases but we all know that is a joke and it does not even count food or energy the things u MUST have. Also at some point all those oversea economys will not need our inflated dollar and when it comes back it will devastate this economy worse then this country has ever seen. Instead of raising minimum wage they need to let employees decide on how they get paid IE currency wars.

 

[steveh_131]

The minimum wage is part of currency manipulation and Keynsian economics. You don't solve a lack of true market influence by removing more market influence and artificially fixing costs. If the minimum wage is acceptable, why not wage controls other than minimum? Why not price controls?

What is fair to pay a worker is what the worker agrees to work for.

Yeah, I gotta agree. Minimum wage is driving inflation, raising minimum wage to keep up is just perpetuating the problem.

 

[MisterChester]

Some can forget that a little inflation can be a good thing. Obviously we shouldn't let it spiral, but a small amount is good for a healthy economy. We shouldn't fight it if it's not a problem. Minimum wage does drive it, but it's not the number 1 thing. With how low the rate is now in terms of purchasing power the effect isn't significant. The purchasing power of the minimum wage was at its highest in the late 60's and early 70's and today it's not even close to what it was. How much inflation can be blamed for price hiking is a different story.

 

[bradmedic04]

As I stood dumbfounded while a checker at the local store tried to figure out how much change to give me on $20.40 for $18.40 of merchandise today, I thought to myself "we should really pay these people more." Instead, I left happily with my $8.40 change.

 

[Leo]

As I stood dumbfounded while a checker at the local store tried to figure out how much change to give me on $20.40 for $18.40 of merchandise today, I thought to myself "we should really pay these people more." Instead, I left happily with my $8.40 change.

Did you really ?!?

You think people are poorly educated now, wait until the NEA fully embraces common core curriculum

 

[Twangbanger]

This is a shell-game, designed for consumption by people who do not understand economics at the macro level. A perfect analogy is the Obamacare dictate which requires businesses to provide benefits to full-time employees, then sets the definition of full-time at 30 hours per week. Voila...we have businesses dumping FTEs and cubby-holing people into 27 hour jobs. Of course, Obama and his apologizers will never admit this is happening. They just care about the "30 million uninsured" they claim to be covering - because that's whose votes they purchased with this legislation, at the expense of everyone else.

It will be the same way with the minimum wage. They don't care what the macro effects will be; they just care about the votes they're buying, and are trusting that people will never put 2 and 2 together to diagnose the negative effects...the same way they hope you won't question why people of modest credentials can't find steady full-time work anymore. It's not bad enough that Obama just officially created 5 million new mouths to compete for those jobs at the low end of the spectrum...now, his home town is going to help dry up the supply of positions for them to compete for. If you don't think business will adapt by using technology to eliminate positions, you're not living in reality. (And the fact that black people still support this guy 80%? Just...wow).

It is heartening, though, to see Mr.J making a passionate play to be Labor Secretary under President Gary Johnson. Address inflation by - creating more inflation? Robert Reich has nothing on you! (Don't sit up too late waiting for Gary's call...)

 

[unshelledpilot]

This is a shell-game, designed for consumption by people who do not understand economics at the macro level. A perfect analogy is the Obamacare dictate which requires businesses to provide benefits to full-time employees, then sets the definition of full-time at 30 hours per week. Voila...we have businesses dumping FTEs and cubby-holing people into 27 hour jobs. Of course, Obama and his apologizers will never admit this is happening. They just care about the "30 million uninsured" they claim to be covering - because that's whose votes they purchased with this legislation, at the expense of everyone else.

It will be the same way with the minimum wage. They don't care what the macro effects will be; they just care about the votes they're buying, and are trusting that people will never put 2 and 2 together to diagnose the negative effects...the same way they hope you won't question why people of modest credentials can't find steady full-time work anymore. It's not bad enough that Obama just officially created 5 million new mouths to compete for those jobs at the low end of the spectrum...now, his home town is going to help dry up the supply of positions for them to compete for. If you don't think business will adapt by using technology to eliminate positions, you're not living in reality. (And the fact that black people still support this guy 80%? Just...wow).

It is heartening, though, to see Mr.J making a passionate play to be Labor Secretary under President Gary Johnson. Address inflation by - creating more inflation? Robert Reich has nothing on you! (Don't sit up too late waiting for Gary's call...)

Exactly why I talk myself hoarse whenever anyone says anything about raising the min wage. While I do feel the low information voters have gotten hip to the game the Dems have been pushing, it's not quite enough. A basic understanding of economics is not high on most people's list of priorities. Hell, a basic understanding of how our .gov works would help this problem immensely.

 

[MCgrease08]

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/break-room/321246-these-people-we-should-pay-$15-hr.html

As I stood dumbfounded while a checker at the local store tried to figure out how much change to give me on $20.40 for $18.40 of merchandise today, I thought to myself "we should really pay these people more." Instead, I left happily with my $8.40 change.

 

[JeremiahJohnson]

Fair to the employees. Duh. The MW is adjusted by the government, they have been lax in supporting their program properly and with taking care of our monetary system. If the monetary system had been left alone, wages would have been maintained at acceptable levels that allowed for a single earner to support themselves. As government programs go, the MW has fallen far behind the times. Government workers wages have certainly not been left to wallow.

According to EPI, the picture isn't quite that dismal comparatively:

...and the MW compared to the average wage is down, but not as bad as you suppose:

...average wage and MW have tracked about the same:

It's just never been a wage to live on and never will be. It's always been a start-up single-earner wage for young adults. I never needed it because I worked for cash as a teen and made my own way throwing hay, fixing cars, and working my grandfather's truck farm. I always knew I couldn't raise a family on that amount so I stayed in school, put myself through the university and now have a 30-year career in engineering behind me.

Except for one blip in the late 60's MW has always been below poverty level:

 

[spec4]

There has not been a "free market" in minimum wages since 1938. We've managed to get along just fine. Restaurants will raise their prices if they need to and those of us who eat out will hardly notice the difference. Prices at restaurants have already been going up, (due to inflation and rising costs) and it has had little to no affect on people eating out.

We've gotten along, I'm not sure about the just fine part. I won't beat this to death, I simply believe govt at all levels is too intrusive and this is simply another example. If I owned a business, the last thing I would want is someone telling me what I had to pay my employees.

 

[Rocketscientist]

I'm going to try not to get all ramped up over this, mostly because I have other stuff to do today and I don't want it to ruin my day thinking about it.

When I was 16, I proudly entered the workforce as I began a new job at Mickey D's. Minimum wage at the time was $4.25/hr. It was enough to save up for a car, put gas in said car, pay my own insurance, buy myself stuff... not a lot of stuff, but enough I was a happy teenager mostly providing for myself with the exception of living with the parents. MY PARENTS taught me early on that I must always aspire to better myself in life. Because of MY PARENTS WISE TEACHINGS, I knew from the jump that I was not going to stay at Mickey D's forever. It wasn't going to be my career.

I realize the world today is a bit different than it was in 1991, but other than the actual value of the dollar, and the fact that society in general keeps getting stupider and stupider every day, much remains the same. As I ponder this idea of a 13 buck minimum wage and remember back to the Mickey D's days, I can't help but think how differently my life would have played out if they paid me $9.25 back then. It scares the living sh*t out of me. Sure, it would have been nice to have that extra dough, but I'd probably still be there today instead of being able to look back on my actual career path with pride. That extra 5 bucks an hour back in '91 would have made me not want to move on to bigger and better things. Well, perhaps not as soon as I did, but still. These are unskilled jobs designed as an entry into the workforce with entry-level pay. I guess you could turn it into a career if you wanted to by moving up through management, EARNING more money for your work... fine.. but to just sit there in an entry-level job, and ***** and moan about "can't afford this" or "can't support family that" and "gimme gimme gimme" without trying to work harder for it? I just can't wrap my head around that. Maybe it's my upbringing serving me well later in life... who knew?

Now I wonder... Whats really the bigger plan here with the $13 min. wage, because it's quite clear to me that it's not about the money. Give folks more money now so they won't want to move on like normal adults should? Create a whole generation of grown adults whose brains are permanently stuck on 16 year old burger flipper mode? Buy their votes and keep them running in place well into their 30's or 40's? Meanwhile all of us consumers pay for it NOW and we also pay LATER when these boneheaded people have to take care of us when it's nursing home time. AHHHHH!! I said I didn't want to get all ramped up over it, but I did anyway, so I'm gonna stop now before I start beating my own head on the keyboard.

Have a wonderful day people!
RS

 

[Dosproduction]

Some can forget that a little inflation can be a good thing. Obviously we shouldn't let it spiral, but a small amount is good for a healthy economy. We shouldn't fight it if it's not a problem. Minimum wage does drive it, but it's not the number 1 thing. With how low the rate is now in terms of purchasing power the effect isn't significant. The purchasing power of the minimum wage was at its highest in the late 60's and early 70's and today it's not even close to what it was. How much inflation can be blamed for price hiking is a different story.

Can you tell me the benefit of INFLATION. I want to hear this.

 

[spaniel]

I grew up in a county (outside Indiana) where a single factory kept the average family income above the poverty level. Anybody who had the grade to get into college and get out, did.

It's telling when I go on facebook and my classmates who stayed behind...lower middle class at best, most honestly probably below that...are lambasting this $15/hr McDonalds thing. Basically these are people that have pulled themselves up and done what they can to earn their way out of poverty and to better jobs looking at a group of people who expect to have it handed to them while flipping burgers (something my classmates did in high school).

I'm kind of tired of hearing interview with McDonalds employees whining that they as a single parent can't support their 4 kids off McDonalds wages. Get an education, keep it in your pants, live within your means, etc.

It was an interesting conversation taking my 7-yr-old to a McDonalds with said picketers this summer. She asked what all those people were doing outside. I told her that they had not worked hard enough in school and were now upset that they didn't make enough money. Funny that at age 7 my kid could get it and prides on her grades.

 

[ModernGunner]

That's beginning to get us back to the norm. Adjusted for inflation from 1974, minimum wage should have been $10 / hr. in 2014. Further, if the pay for that minimum wage job increased just a very, very modest $.15 / hr. per year, that job would pay $14.25 in 2014. That's a pretty small raise, and the same raise every year, for 4 decades.

The whole "Oh, well McDonald's and other businesses will just automate everything, and jobs will be lost!" is an emotional response, and a fallacy.

Even if things WERE to get automated, someone at some company would need to sell that automaton, someone would need to build it, someone would need to repair it, and someone would need to fill it with burgers & fries. So, by that 'logic', 1 job would be 'lost', but 4 would be gained. And all likely higher paid than minimum wage. Not a bad trade-off, actually.

Really, to be fair and maintain proper 'pay rate difference', ALL hourly wages in Chicago area should automatically be increased $1.75 / hr. to keep pace with the new increase in minimum wage.

For several decades now, business owners have been getting away with paying well less than a '1974 equivalent' minimum wage. The 'free meal' is over, and it's time to pay the tab, Business Owners.

 

[Dosproduction]

A lot of the people working for minimum wage don't deserve even that amount. The inflation most of u are talking about is the number the government releases or the privately owned bank called the Federal Reserve releases kind of like the employment number. They change it at will to make them selves look better. Get rid of minimum wage and u will find people will be better off. Job don't pay enough fine get another. Don't cry that u don't make enough money at some one else's business. Start your OWN business and pay your self what ever u want. Should people make more wealth YES. Should people work harder YES.

 

[Dosproduction]

Also mind u the Federal Reserve makes a profit off of inflation and they are the ones who say if it is enough or not. Fox in the hen house type stuff right there. Of course the Federal Reserve is going to say we need more inflation its free money for them everytime the money is inflated.

 

[JeremiahJohnson]

MG technical jobs are needed to support automation - severely doubt flipping burgers will ever be automated - but that support is way less than touch labor, that's why it's done. The argument that tech support will fill in every billet lost to touch labor is ridiculous. Automation cuts cost of production and increases quality - period - or they wouldn't do it. One job replaced by 4? Really? What business would increase their overhead for the sake of automation?

Honestly I couldn't care less what the minimum wage is. I haven't worked for MW ever. Nor would I try to support a family with it. So, government, tinker away, the market will adjust as it always has, those who decide to be a teenager their whole life and try to raise a family on MW - good luck. Aim higher or suffer. The American Dream works both ways. Aim Higher and you may do better. Strive to succeed and you just might. Complain, picket your employer, feed an entitlement mentality and you'll languish and fail. It's really up to each person which way they choose to pursue happiness.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

That's beginning to get us back to the norm. Adjusted for inflation from 1974, minimum wage should have been $10 / hr. in 2014. Further, if the pay for that minimum wage job increased just a very, very modest $.15 / hr. per year, that job would pay $14.25 in 2014. That's a pretty small raise, and the same raise every year, for 4 decades.

The whole "Oh, well McDonald's and other businesses will just automate everything, and jobs will be lost!" is an emotional response, and a fallacy.

Even if things WERE to get automated, someone at some company would need to sell that automaton, someone would need to build it, someone would need to repair it, and someone would need to fill it with burgers & fries. So, by that 'logic', 1 job would be 'lost', but 4 would be gained. And all likely higher paid than minimum wage. Not a bad trade-off, actually.

Really, to be fair and maintain proper 'pay rate difference', ALL hourly wages in Chicago area should automatically be increased $1.75 / hr. to keep pace with the new increase in minimum wage.

For several decades now, business owners have been getting away with paying well less than a '1974 equivalent' minimum wage. The 'free meal' is over, and it's time to pay the tab, Business Owners.

The thing about automation is that it shifts the employment profile of the company. My experience has been it never completely replaces "unskilled" labor but it can significantly reduce it. While it reduces "unskilled" labor, "skilled" labor increases. However, that skilled labor does not replace the unskilled labor on a 1:1 ratio. Depending on the reliability of the equipment and how well the process is controlled (or how robust the process is), you can get by on a fraction of the skilled labor.

Automation is not free or even very cheap. It becomes more economical though when more labor intensive alternatives get expensive. It's much easier and cheaper to "program" and "deploy" a person...up to a point. At some point, wage rates may/will tip that scale. It's already done it in other labor intensive businesses, so it's more a question of business case than it is of emotional response.

 

[JeremiahJohnson]

The thing about automation is that it shifts the employment profile of the company. My experience has been it never completely replaces "unskilled" labor but it can significantly reduce it. While it reduces "unskilled" labor, "skilled" labor increases. However, that skilled labor does not replace the unskilled labor on a 1:1 ratio. Depending on the reliability of the equipment and how well the process is controlled (or how robust the process is), you can get by on a fraction of the skilled labor.

Automation is not free or even very cheap. It becomes more economical though when more labor intensive alternatives get expensive. It's much easier and cheaper to "program" and "deploy" a person...up to a point. At some point, wage rates may/will tip that scale. It's already done it in other labor intensive businesses, so it's more a question of business case than it is of emotional response.

Exactly! Why would any business increase their overhead for the sake of automation. Any cursory study in the area will obviously reveal there's a savings and that savings is less touch labor replaced by cheaper (because WAY fewer) tech/support labor. If that weren't the case, no business would do it.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Exactly! Why would any business increase their overhead for the sake of automation. Any cursory study in the area will obviously reveal there's a savings and that savings is less touch labor replaced by cheaper (because WAY fewer) tech/support labor. If that weren't the case, no business would do it.

The good thing is that skilled labor can command higher compensation...it's just that you don't need as much of it. Then there's the issue of motivation for obtaining the skills and maintaining proficiency in being a skilled tradesman. Which, if more people possessed that, this discussion might not be such a hardy perennial.