Rose-Hulman Rifle Team Forced To Shut Down - Speak Out INGO

[CountryBoy19]

IF I were to speculate (dangerous), I'd bet there are some significant insurance and legal liability hurdles facing RHIT and other schools. That is probably the cost benefit decision they are taking.

This is most certainly the issue. I was there when the Rose Gunclub got shut down in 2008 (I was an officer). The meetings with school administrators, the owner of the range we shot at, and the insurance all went sort of "fishy".

Backstory, there was an accident during a gun-shoot. I will say no more about the accident other than the fact that the offending party has snuck onto the premises without signing in and signing a range release. He then injured himself and sued the school.

The reaction from the school's insurance company was a "Holy **** you have a gun-club where students are permitted to shoot guns!!!! We will no longer cover such activities. The school will shut it down, take liability for it, or transfer liability to another party". The range owner stepped up and accepted liability under his umbrella coverage for the range and we implemented better check-in/security for the gun-shoots. We had a gun-shoot the next fall and all seemed well, until insurance heard about it and flipped out. It seemed as though their request for the school to accept liability or for a third party to accept liability was only a bluff (they had assumed that neither the school, nor a third party would want to accept liability). We (the gun-club and range owner) did everything we possibly could to comply with their requests, and every time we went back and said, "Checked the box, may we now have a gun-shoot?" They added on another box to check. Eventually the school got sick of dealing with it and shut the club down, selling off the assets.

I wonder if we could help "sponsor" a club by buying their existing rifles and gear and find a place for the student shooters to use it, independent of the school. They wouldn't be able to compete as "Rose-Hulman," but at least they'd be able shoot and get coached (if the coach were willing to continue) and compete as individuals.

I'm 100% certain that the man who owns the range we used would be open to assisting in any way he can with this. He was a BIG supporter of the club and played a HUGE role in getting it started back up in the 90's (after it got shut down in the 80's). It has always been, and likely will always remain, his life goal to properly educate people on the proper use of firearms. If you are serious about this I can help get the right people connected... but it's going to take money. IIRC, the last year of the Rose-Hulman gunclub our budget was almost $30,000 (the most of any of the clubs on campus) and we already had the assets, that was primarily ammo, trip to Knob-Creek for officers, and acquiring a couple new guns each year.

 

[chipbennett]

I graduated in 1983. The first two quarters of ROTC were still mandatory for all Freshmen then.

That was still true as of 1995. (I can't remember if it was one quarter, or two. But I remember the military history, rappelling, and water-balloon war-gaming.)

 

[Bfish]

I'm 100% certain that the man who owns the range we used would be open to assisting in any way he can with this. He was a BIG supporter of the club and played a HUGE role in getting it started back up in the 90's (after it got shut down in the 80's). It has always been, and likely will always remain, his life goal to properly educate people on the proper use of firearms. If you are serious about this I can help get the right people connected... but it's going to take money. IIRC, the last year of the Rose-Hulman gunclub our budget was almost $30,000 (the most of any of the clubs on campus) and we already had the assets, that was primarily ammo, trip to Knob-Creek for officers, and acquiring a couple new guns each year.

I am pretty sure the guy is an INGO member.

 

[jblomenberg16]

So why do you think the president chose to assert a non-existent rule as the reason for his decision?

If quote attributed to him are true (regarding the alleged NCAA requirement for the rifle to compete only against schools its own size), then it's either a huge lie, or he is ignorant of the rules that he claims drove his decision. Either way, it's bad.

That is what is puzzling to me. Given, I didn't speak with the NCAA person for the Rifle program, but my source is familiar with the differences in the divisional sports and those that are open to all schools regardless of size.

 

[jblomenberg16]

That was still true as of 1995. (I can't remember if it was one quarter, or two. But I remember the military history, rappelling, and water-balloon war-gaming.)

Same here when I was a freshman in 97. We even went and shot at an indoor range not far from the ISU football field. I received my US Army pistol qualification badge as part of the class with the M9. He said to shoot rifles and get combat boots (which were fashionable in those days) we had to officially sign up for the ROTC program. He was a cool guy...looked a lot like Vanilla Ice. For the life of me I can't remember his name.

 

[CountryBoy19]

I am pretty sure the guy is an INGO member.

Possibly, but I suspect it's a busy time of year for him and he isn't on here much right now...

 

[ModernGunner]

The result of allowing frivolous lawsuits.

 

[Bfish]

Possibly, but I suspect it's a busy time of year for him and he isn't on here much right now...

Yeah, it is that time of the year...

 

[rhino]

That is what is puzzling to me. Given, I didn't speak with the NCAA person for the Rifle program, but my source is familiar with the differences in the divisional sports and those that are open to all schools regardless of size.

Troubling ...

I got another call from one of the kids working the phones trying to hustle money from me last night. I've been dodging them for a couple of years, but now that I'm actually in a position where I can make a contribution that won't hurt me, I am disinclined due to this issue. It's more about my belief that the president lied than the reality of the rifle team being done, though.

Same here when I was a freshman in 97. We even went and shot at an indoor range not far from the ISU football field. I received my US Army pistol qualification badge as part of the class with the M9. He said to shoot rifles and get combat boots (which were fashionable in those days) we had to officially sign up for the ROTC program. He was a cool guy...looked a lot like Vanilla Ice. For the life of me I can't remember his name.

We had some interesting characters too. Some day I'll tell you about my experience on the orienteering course the day after we had one of those monsoon-like rains.

Summary: Big Guy + Deep Mud - Team Mates (who bailed) = Bad Situation

 

[jblomenberg16]

Troubling ...

I got another call from one of the kids working the phones trying to hustle money from me last night. I've been dodging them for a couple of years, but now that I'm actually in a position where I can make a contribution that won't hurt me, I am disinclined due to this issue. It's more about my belief that the president lied than the reality of the rifle team being done, though.





We had some interesting characters too. Some day I'll tell you about my experience on the orienteering course the day after we had one of those monsoon-like rains.

Summary: Big Guy + Deep Mud - Team Mates (who bailed) = Bad Situation

Lol...I can only imagine. I have a good story about the football team vs. The ROTC guys on a rope bridge across the creek that runs though the middle of campus.

 

[rhino]

Lol...I can only imagine. I have a good story about the football team vs. The ROTC guys on a rope bridge across the creek that runs though the middle of campus.

We'll swap stories the next time we meet!

If we don't manage that before, let's make the INGO RHIT Homecoming Gathering 2015 a reality.

In fact, at that time we could also express our opinions to the president as a group regarding how he chose to handle eliminating the rifle team.

 

[chipbennett]

We'll swap stories the next time we meet!

If we don't manage that before, let's make the INGO RHIT Homecoming Gathering 2015 a reality.

In fact, at that time we could also express our opinions to the president as a group regarding how he chose to handle eliminating the rifle team.

Now you're talking! If possible, let's get the coach and any available rifle team members involved, as well.

 

[rhino]

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...lman-homecoming-meeting-18-20-sep-2015-a.html

 

[Cameramonkey]

We'll swap stories the next time we meet!

If we don't manage that before, let's make the INGO RHIT Homecoming Gathering 2015 a reality.

In fact, at that time we could also express our opinions to the president as a group regarding how he chose to handle eliminating the rifle team.

While you are there, somebody get video of each of you displaying your alumni donation checks that you were going to write to the school (dont forget to obscure your routing numbers). Then a statement to the administration of why you are about to do the next step, followed by you all ripping up said checks on camera.

Email the video to the administration. Quantify the monetary hit. (not that it would actually make a real difference in their decision)

 

[Que]

I just got another message from the coach:

Hello! We are working a couple different angles rifle now, and I have a feeler out to the NRA's collegiate competition division to see what the future could hold for us if we were unaffiliated with the school. I am not going anywhere, and will coach the team in any capacity I can. My personal email address is labelljp@gmail.com if anyone needs it, and my phone number is 812-201-7373. Thanks!

 

[Cameramonkey]

I just got another message from the coach:

Hello! We are working a couple different angles rifle now, and I have a feeler out to the NRA's collegiate competition division to see what the future could hold for us if we were unaffiliated with the school. I am not going anywhere, and will coach the team in any capacity I can. My personal email address is labelljp@gmail.com if anyone needs it, and my phone number is 812-201-7373. Thanks!

Very promising. If they DO manage to regroup as an unafilliated group, Tweak my suggestion... Dont rip the checks up... show the school the money you WERE donating is now going to the team.

 

[MAJB Retired]

I shot on a college rifle team (Central Michigan University)...unfortunately we weren't competitive)..but it was a great experience, a very competitive sport, and the shooters on the team (all 4 years) were extremely dedicated to the sport and the university. My university still supports their team. That Rose-Holman has decided to no longer support that collegiate competition should be a significant black mark on their reputation. But we should not be calling them names...the dirt bags...

 

[JeremiahJohnson]

Well, thank God the rifle team and all the students are disarmed. That's a start.

Just got this in the email:

Dear Parents: The message below was sent to all campus yesterday and we thought you would appreciate a copy as well for your information. THIS IS ONLY A DRILL. This Thursday morning (Oct. 8) during Fall Break, area law enforcement agencies will be helping us test our crisis preparedness by conducting an emergency response drill in New Olin Hall. This will involve staging a mock crisis with student and staff volunteers, and emergency responders. The drill will take place from approximately 10 a.m. until noon. If you are on campus or in the area during that time, you may see quite a few police, fire, and rescue vehicles. Please stay clear of the drill area and do not interfere with their activity. This test is an important component in our overall crisis response planning to ensure the safety of our campus community. Please note: While this drill comes at a time when last week's tragic events of Umpqua Community College in Roseburg, Oregon are still fresh in our minds, rest assured this is not a knee jerk reaction. This drill has been in the planning stages for several months and was purposefully scheduled to coincide with our regularly scheduled fall break of Oct. 8-9. We appreciate everyone's support as we work to ensure our continued preparedness to address the safety of all constituencies on campus. Thank you. Rob Coons Senior Vice President and Chief Administrative Officer

 

[JeremiahJohnson]

My response to Mr. Coons (schaffer@rose-hulman.edu):

"There's no possible way law enforcement or anyone else can respond faster than those attacked if those attacked are armed. I disagree with Rose Hulman's policy for a disarmed faculty and disarmed student body even though those adults are capable and licensed to do so. Regardless of the plan, if Chris Mercer had decided to step onto the Rose campus, with the current disarming policies in place, the result would have been about the same. Unless you are planning to embed armed security, or allow licensed carriers to carry on campus, running away or hiding until LEO arrives won't save anyone."

 

[natdscott]

I never was as impressed with Rose-Hulman as they seem to be with themselves. I didn't go there, but I back my opinion with that of TWO graduates who are now PG's in the "Real World". Despite being very well educated, they both found that RH's claims to notoriety do not, in fact, hold any more water than anybody else's when sitting in front of an interview board composed of Engineers of the highest level.

Too bad about the rifle team. I really liked how Mr. Jimmy McPresident refused to even capitalize the sport of Rifle. I imagine football or baseball would not get the same.

Ah well...it was probably just going to be too much work to be competitive.


Edit to add: Mr. Johnson, if there is something that your local Statie-association types, like ISPRA and CIHPRS, can do to help them, let me know. We have gotten a few of the Purdue team kids out to matches this summer, and that has been excellent for all involved.

-Nate