The news has finally caught on to the heroin problem in Bloomington

[churchmouse]

I think you'd be surprised at the number of drug addicts who have jobs and pay taxes.

Are you referring to Medicaid charges? Because if they are uninsured it's not your taxes, it's the docs and hospitals that eat the loss.

I am aware of many functional alcoholics and drug addicts.
They all hit the wall on occasion. All of them.

 

[Denny347]

The users will die off which saves the rest of us tax dollars .

That's awful. So how much tax dollars is and addicts life worth? Is a person no more than their addiction?

 

[Denny347]

My Uncle, whom I grew up with like he was a slightly older brother, died last year from complications resulting from his addiction to Meth. He was 52yrs old when his heart gave out. The last year of his life he was an addict. Did that year define him? He brought the first African Elephants to the Indianapolis Zoo when it was still at 30th St, he created the elephant training program, one of the first in the US for African Elephants as they are much harder to train than the Asians you always see. He did that for years before going to Africa where he led elephant safaris until he was trampled by a bull elephant. He was airlifted to a 3rd world "hospital" where he recovered. Moved back to the US, never to train elephants again. His natural ability with animals was not lost, he was able to train anything he came across. He was raising/training exotic tropical birds in Florida when he passed. When my mother and aunt were inn the waiting room of the hospital while the doctors were in the shock room trying to revive Dave, a priest came to talk to my mom and aunt. They told him Dave's life story, who he was and the joy he brought. The priest the went to the shock room and began retelling Dave's story to the Drs and nurses. He did this so they saw Dave for who he was, a man with a wonderful story, not a worthless addict so many see them as. They are no more worthless than you or I, they just have a very real problem. He is my Avatar here and the reason for my most recent tattoo on my forearm.

 

[jsharmon7]

I just don't know how we can draw a line with lifestyle choices and addictions. If a drunk driver is injured in a crash should they not be helped? If an obese person suffers complications from heart disease or diabetes should medics not be dispatched? Should medics/police have to positively identify the patient before Narcan is administered in case they're a repeat customer? Are you willing to put that burden on a dispatcher to check the run history and then knowingly not send help? It's easy to say "let them die" when you're not one of "them." I don't have a lot of sympathy for people who knowingly put a needle in their arm, but it's not as simple as some make it out.

 

[Warrior1354]

There does come a time in your life when you have too let them go as well. I have a uncle that has been abusing alcohol since the mid 1980s and he still does. We put him in rehab many times he leaves or gets kicked out, gave him a place too stay he steals too buy alcohol, get him a job he works a week then quits too buy alcohol, etc.

It got too the point we dropped him off at a mission center up in northern Indiana and basically said good luck your on your own. We still love him and care about him but almost 30 years of this were done with it.

The person abusing the alcohol or drugs has too want too get help and get better. I can pay for all the help and care in the world but if they don't want too get better they never well. Sorry but its true.

 

[femurphy77]

The trend seems to be "Shoot up in a public place so the Narcan Squad will find you if you OD." I've seen a couple news stories about cities saying they can't afford this. As a taxpayer I have to ask, "What's not getting paid for in order to revive the junkies?" I kind of like having someone answer the phone when I call 911.

Let.



Them.



Rot.



The resources being expended, sometimes multiple times per day could be better utilized than by supporting these dregs of society's habit!

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

Wait, are you talking about the addicts or the old people.......or both?

Specifically , I meant the " junkies " not the old folks .


It was more of a broad brush complaint about the 50 some odd percent that are draining our economy by being consumers instead of producers .

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

That's awful. So how much tax dollars is and addicts life worth? Is a person no more than their addiction?

The idea for me isn't specifically about dollars , it's about not wasting resources on the people too sorry / stupid to take care of themselves be they junkies , welfare queens , etc .

How much is there life worth ? If it isn't worth anything to them don't expect me to care for them .

I lump them in with people that break in a house and get dead , pull a toy gun on a cop , jump in a lion cage , etc .

In my mind it's a " triage " sort of thing .

Realistically , how many of these folks will ever get the drive to get clean or become a productive member of society ?

I have family / friends that I'll no longer help or associate with because of their addictions to everything from crack , pills to just being sorry .

I'm not trying to say I'm perfect because I've " experimented " with alcohol and weed for over 20 years , I just made the CHOICE to not let it become a problem .

You say it's awful , I say it's more awful to steal from others " producers " to accommodate / enable / fund someone else's social justice BS , " consumers " .

Choices have natural consequences until we step in and alter the natural order .

 

[IndianaSoloMcfly]

Just wanted to chime in, I may spend a significant amount of my time on or near kirkwood. Ive called the police numerous times. Yesterday my pals noticed they are just parking an ambulance by the Chipotle and waiting, police presence is there but it isnt enough to do anything. I noticed the issue about 4-5 years ago. Heroin and K2 (spice) has significantly changed the bloomington experience. An alley i pass everyday seems to go unnoticed by the local law enforcement. It is litered with broken glass (pipes) and what could be syringes. We wont even go in that alley during the day. Its disgusting.

Ive had friends and aquatints die or live and struggle everyday from heroin addiction. Since im around it alot i hear a lot of ideas about what to do. A lot of just let them die. I would agree that just letting them die sounds like to simplest way to end the situation but we should all know that " let them die" isnt something that we are actually going to do. Unfortunately, the biggest disease that is affecting bloomington is mental illness. And when mental illness meets hard drug use it makes a not so pretty picture. I wish i had an answer. These are just my observations.

 

[bwframe]

Just wanted to chime in, I may spend a significant amount of my time on or near kirkwood. Ive called the police numerous times. Yesterday my pals noticed they are just parking an ambulance by the Chipotle and waiting, police presence is there but it isnt enough to do anything. I noticed the issue about 4-5 years ago. Heroin and K2 (spice) has significantly changed the bloomington experience. An alley i pass everyday seems to go unnoticed by the local law enforcement. It is litered with broken glass (pipes) and what could be syringes. We wont even go in that alley during the day. Its disgusting.

Ive had friends and aquatints die or live and struggle everyday from heroin addiction. Since im around it alot i hear a lot of ideas about what to do. A lot of just let them die. I would agree that just letting them die sounds like to simplest way to end the situation but we should all know that " let them die" isnt something that we are actually going to do. Unfortunately, the biggest disease that is affecting bloomington is mental illness. And when mental illness meets hard drug use it makes a not so pretty picture. I wish i had an answer. These are just my observations.

When the revenue stops flowing, the city will change. Even the Btown libs are subject to this.

Bloomington's Anti-Panhandling Signs Stolen | News - Indiana Public Media

Unfortunately, the college crowd and the parents that fund them will have to see things get a whole lot worse before they start pulling out of Btown.

 

[IndianaSoloMcfly]

The signs are a joke. They are back now but they are each about 13 feet high off the ground. I didnt even notice they were back until i was looking off the upstairs balcony. The panhandlers are great because you know they are going to stay where you can see them. Its the ones in backways that follow you and whisper to their friends,

 

[IndyDave1776]

Sound like narcan is the problem...

You got it. Problem would self-correct if we would let it.

 

[Denny347]

Just when I gain a little trust in humanity, I come here and lose it again. Lots of tough talk and shallow hearts. I have seen more misery than I can remember, born witness to the depravity of humans, and what drugs and alcohol do to people, family included. I have worked VERY hard to maintain my humanity and still perform my job. I do have to separate work from home to maintain some sanity. However, the people I deal with, the criminals, the victims, the addicts, are all someone's child/father/mother/loved one. In all but a few cases, they have someone who loves them and knows a side of them I was never shown. Knowing that, it is impossible to see most anyone as worthless anymore. Maybe this job has made me HYPER sensitive to people rather than the "normal" numbness that most become. The responses here are very "unChristian-like".

 

[IndyDave1776]

Just when I gain a little trust in humanity, I come here and lose it again. Lots of tough talk and shallow hearts. I have seen more misery than I can remember, born witness to the depravity of humans, and what drugs and alcohol do to people, family included. I have worked VERY hard to maintain my humanity and still perform my job. I do have to separate work from home to maintain some sanity. However, the people I deal with, the criminals, the victims, the addicts, are all someone's child/father/mother/loved one. In all but a few cases, they have someone who loves them and knows a side of them I was never shown. Knowing that, it is impossible to see most anyone as worthless anymore. Maybe this job has made me HYPER sensitive to people rather than the "normal" numbness that most become. The responses here are very "unChristian-like".

My experience has led me through this same way of thinking into the realization the the overwhelming majority will never have any desire to change and will lead many more down the same path given the opportunity to do so. While you are correct that all human life has intrinsic value and each individual is in fact someone's family member/friend/loved one, I have grown tired of affording such individuals the opportunity to pull in more and more people multiplying the tragedy. I suppose this works like a number of issues with me in that I would likely be far more tolerant and/or liberal if I had some reason to believe that such an approach would actually work.

 

[SMiller]

Just when I gain a little trust in humanity, I come here and lose it again. Lots of tough talk and shallow hearts. I have seen more misery than I can remember, born witness to the depravity of humans, and what drugs and alcohol do to people, family included. I have worked VERY hard to maintain my humanity and still perform my job. I do have to separate work from home to maintain some sanity. However, the people I deal with, the criminals, the victims, the addicts, are all someone's child/father/mother/loved one. In all but a few cases, they have someone who loves them and knows a side of them I was never shown. Knowing that, it is impossible to see most anyone as worthless anymore. Maybe this job has made me HYPER sensitive to people rather than the "normal" numbness that most become. The responses here are very "unChristian-like".

Wish I shared the heart that you do, run after run and I get burned down, find myself just not into it like I was at first.

Hate to say it is the DUI-MVA's where a child is injured that makes me flaming mad, really don't care about the drugs/drinking but seeing kids or innocent people get hurt gets me.

I feel like a heartless bastard at times but I see it in the EMS/Fire/LEO as well so it isn't just me.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

Anyone wanting some insight from the users perspective should get on YT and check out Joey Diaz's podcasts , specifically #376 with Aida Rodriguez .

He's a comedian / actor not the fighter . He's a excon felon who's done time and had a 30 year addiction/s to coke , heroin / sounds like whatever was available .

Warning , he's a street guy so if your offended by street language / cussing he's not for you .

At 1:27:10 he tells you straight up how if you ( the enabler ) play the game with them ( addicts ) , they'll let you take them to "55 rehabs " and how it won't work until they are ready to quit .

Meanwhile they'll keep doing whatever to feed their addictions .

As far as being " un-Christian like " , the bible talks in plenty of places about " not planting seeds on stony ground " , " not casting your pearls to dogs " .

The idea with that is to not waste your time / effort on people who aren't ready to change .

 

[Warrior1354]

I can't help but too agree with that. We have dealt with my alcoholic uncle for almost 30 years now. I mean his 75 year old mother my grandmother was taking care of him. He wasn't going too get better because he didn't want too get better. I could have given him the best treatment in the world and a pile of money for him too have a good living. But he would blow it on alcohol.

I mean when we got him out of his apartment because he was losing it due too not paying the rent. There was over 50 empty whisky bottles in the garage. We finally got tired of it. His two other brothers have families and it was dragging them down not too mention his mother didn't need that kind of stress at her age. We finally put our feet down and said no more. There comes a time when you have too let them go.

"God helps those who help themselves"

 

[eldirector]

 

[Denny347]

Wish I shared the heart that you do, run after run and I get burned down, find myself just not into it like I was at first.

Hate to say it is the DUI-MVA's where a child is injured that makes me flaming mad, really don't care about the drugs/drinking but seeing kids or innocent people get hurt gets me.

I feel like a heartless bastard at times but I see it in the EMS/Fire/LEO as well so it isn't just me.

That's typical but over time, can lead to unhealthy habits. As strange as it sounds, it's been years since anything I saw or did at work angered me. I cannot seem to get that back, lost over time.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

I would assume that if I OD'd tonight and my wife called an ambulance, I'd be charged for the Narcan, the ambulance ride, and whatever else they do. I have a job and I have insurance so I'd pay for it, just like I'd pay for my Chemo if I had cancer.

On the other hand, if I was poor and had no job and no insurance and was on medicaid, then all of my medical care would be free. Narcan, Chemo, ED pills, whatever.

We have a single payer medical system in America, I just don't happen to qualify for it.