The news has finally caught on to the heroin problem in Bloomington

[hoosierdoc]

I am still a bit confused. The libertarians on here will tell that's that Drug use should be legal. Why would we punish someone for legal behavior? If we legalize prostitution to truly give women control of their bodies would we make them wear a scarlet letter?

 

[WebSnyper]

I am still a bit confused. The libertarians on here will tell that's that Drug use should be legal. Why would we punish someone for legal behavior? If we legalize prostitution to truly give women control of their bodies would we make them wear a scarlet letter?

The libertarians would not mandate that government fix the problem nor intervene in an OD, whether the act was legal or not.

 

[PistolBob]

I have no idea why anyone would want to live in Bloomington Indiana. Near Bloomington maybe, rural Monroe County, yes....but not in Bloomington.

 

[hoosierdoc]

The libertarians would not mandate that government fix the problem nor intervene in an OD, whether the act was legal or not.

So what would libertarians say if someone called 911 and the dispatcher said "no, we are not coming"? People pay taxes to support EMS and 911. Would a libertarian see that as a non-essential service and advocate for the elimination of 911 services and paramedics? I guess I'm confused. If not, would be the libertarian system to decide who gets an ambulance and who doesn't?

Again, most of the time the diagnosis is not known when the 911 call goes out. Family or friends or someone in the community finds an unconscious person. How do you make the CORRRECT diagnosis BEFORE anyone is on scene and decide to withhold treatment? Will you take the job of deciding those protocols and accept personal liability for the mistakes when people die?

 

[longbow]

We need an official overdose counter for Bloomington. It time yet to declare the homeless shelters public health hazards? Rumor has it they are having a far share of the overdoses.....

 

[Denny347]

The libertarians would not mandate that government fix the problem nor intervene in an OD, whether the act was legal or not.

That's not accurate. Fire/EMS IS the government. I don't think you will find that Libertarians feel that they should not intercede if someone needs it. I do agree that the government isn't likely able to fix this.

 

[HoughMade]

Crazy idea. Let's stop handing out opioid prescriptions like Halloween candy and see where the heroin addiction rate is in 10 years or so.

 

[hoosierdoc]

Crazy idea. Let's stop handing out opioid prescriptions like Halloween candy and see where the heroin addiction rate is in 10 years or so.

Is this a necro post from 10 years ago?

 

[HoughMade]

Is this a necro post from 10 years ago?

I wish.

Some of your colleagues, orthopedic surgeons, neurosurgeons, anesthesiologists in pain management, etc. still over prescribe opioid pain meds...sometimes with benzos, just for good measure, and with the best of intentions. So when the patient eventually is cut off (if they are) they find alternatives, both cheaper and less reliable.

https://www.amazon.com/Dreamland-True-Americas-Opiate-Epidemic/dp/1620402521

 

[Leadeye]

I am still a bit confused. The libertarians on here will tell that's that Drug use should be legal. Why would we punish someone for legal behavior? If we legalize prostitution to truly give women control of their bodies would we make them wear a scarlet letter?

A tag with the hourly rate might be more efficient.

 

[hoosierdoc]

I wish.

Some of your colleagues, orthopedic surgeons, neurosurgeons, anesthesiologists in pain management, etc. still over prescribe opioid pain meds...sometimes with benzos, just for good measure, and with the best of intentions. So when the patient eventually is cut off (if they are) they find alternatives, both cheaper and less reliable.

https://www.amazon.com/Dreamland-True-Americas-Opiate-Epidemic/dp/1620402521

oh I know, and I despise them for it. Percocet and Xanax, what a combo. Taking benzos three times a day, just because, I dunno, but here they are. Enjoy!

 

[HoughMade]

Obamacare certainly hasn't helped. Tell doctors to cut down on pain med prescriptions then tie reimbursement to patient satisfaction stats. Brilliant.

 

[hoosierdoc]

That was pre Obama.

now thanks to indiana's opioid law limiting scripts to 7 days for ER docs unless cancer or substance abuse therapy, I get ANOTHER pop up window every time I write a script for a narcotic. I never write more than 30, usually 24 is my max. They should be able to see ortho or whoever before they run out of my pills. Yet now I get more interruptions in my flow and more "alert fatigue" causing me to ignore the pop ups even more.

 

[HoughMade]

That was pre Obama.

now thanks to indiana's opioid law limiting scripts to 7 days for ER docs unless cancer or substance abuse therapy, I get ANOTHER pop up window every time I write a script for a narcotic. I never write more than 30, usually 24 is my max. They should be able to see ortho or whoever before they run out of my pills. Yet now I get more interruptions in my flow and more "alert fatigue" causing me to ignore the pop ups even more.

OK, pre-Obama.

I don't think the ER is where the real problem lies.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Crazy idea. Let's stop handing out opioid prescriptions like Halloween candy and see where the heroin addiction rate is in 10 years or so.

I would like to know how this works. I had such a miserable time when I needed such things that there is a pharmacist, well, I won't go out of my way to be vengeful, but he would be well advised not to cross the street while I am driving. Treated me like a damned criminal because I wanted to fill the prescriptions written to me which added up to 24 hours' worth each. I later learned that two of them were for the same thing, but I am neither a doctor nor a pharmacist, so as far as I am concerned, if I am reading a different name, its a different product.

 

[WebSnyper]

So what would libertarians say if someone called 911 and the dispatcher said "no, we are not coming"? People pay taxes to support EMS and 911. Would a libertarian see that as a non-essential service and advocate for the elimination of 911 services and paramedics? I guess I'm confused. If not, would be the libertarian system to decide who gets an ambulance and who doesn't?

Again, most of the time the diagnosis is not known when the 911 call goes out. Family or friends or someone in the community finds an unconscious person. How do you make the CORRRECT diagnosis BEFORE anyone is on scene and decide to withhold treatment? Will you take the job of deciding those protocols and accept personal liability for the mistakes when people die?

That's not accurate. Fire/EMS IS the government. I don't think you will find that Libertarians feel that they should not intercede if someone needs it. I do agree that the government isn't likely able to fix this.

https://www.lp.org/issues/taxes/

"When you pay taxes, do you do so voluntarily? Or do you do so because you are forced to do so? If you don’t pay your taxes, what will happen? Will you be fined further? Harassed by the IRS or other government entities? Jailed?
The Libertarian Party is fundamentally opposed to the use of force to coerce people into doing anything. We think it is inherently wrong and should have no role in a civilized society.
Thus we think that government forcing people to pay taxes is inherently wrong.
Libertarians advocate for voluntary exchange, where people are free to make their own choices about what to do with their lives, their time, their bodies, their livelihood, and their dollars.
If Americans want to give money to the government for one reason or another, they should be free to do so. If Americans prefer to spend their money on other things, then they should be free to do that also."

This problem will not be solved by the involuntary redistribution of wealth in the form of tax dollars.

That said, I am not 100% Libertarian (more pragmatist), but I am for a reduced role for/of government.


https://www.lp.org/issues/war-on-drugs/

https://www.lp.org/issues/healthcare/

https://www.lp.org/issues/crime-and-justice/

 

[patience0830]

Many communities spend a ton of money fixing infrastructure that was half-assed or poorly planned by contractors and/or private property owners and then gets pushed off on the town, city, or county. I see it every day.




I was pondering that very same thing while I was driving the other day. A lot of folks seem to sound like they're ready and able to make the hard decision and take the firm stance, but my guess is that not very many of those have the stomach to step over the dead bodies as they stroll on.

After watching my wife give away her retirement, the insurance money from the death of her previous spouse,, and her regular paycheck for about 13 years to keep my worthless stepson and his even more worthless spouse on methadone, Doc. I can walk ON the bodies and not flinch.

 

[Old Prof]

When my dad died at home in 2008, he was a DNR, but the paramedics pushed us to allow them to shock his heart, and when I said no, they insisted on doing CPR. I didn't stop them and they worked a good little while before they called it. In hind-sight, I'm sorry I let them do the CPR (it's way more violent than you see on TV). I knew my dad was dead and I was concerned that they'd get a heart beat and take him in to spend the last days of his life brain dead and hooked to a ventilator. I'm glad that when he went, he went.

When my FIL died in the hospital, he was also a DNR, but the hospital hooked him to a ventilator anyway in ICU. We had them take him off the ventilator and stop the drugs and he died in minutes.

I'm not sure why those measures were taken when both men were DNR. I have been told that EMTs would rather transport a patient and have the ER doc pronounce the death, but I don't know if that's true. I think with my FIL it may have just been a mistake. I think if I ever get a tattoo, it's going to be a big DNR on my chest.

My father had terminal prostate cancer, and he an my mother very much wanted him to be at home when he died. The Hospice out of Lexington, Ky. advised them to not call for help when he was dying or he would be taken to the hospital, and would spend his last hours there.

My saddest memory of the whole time was after he died and we had moved the bed out of the dining room where he stayed (there was no bedroom on the first floor of their house) and some other stuff, there were a pair of his shoes, empty, in the corner. It is strange what hits you.

The other story from this, which is on-topic to the thread, is that a nurse from the insurance company called my mother a couple of months before he died and said he was on very strong pain killers and they needed to be worried about addiction. I worry that a side effect of the addiction epidemic is that the terminally ill in severe pain will not get the pain killers they need. My father was USMC in the World War II, and was a pretty tough guy, but the cancer pain, even with pain killers, was hard to take.

 

[HoughMade]

After watching my wife give away her retirement, the insurance money from the death of her previous spouse,, and her regular paycheck for about 13 years to keep my worthless stepson and his even more worthless spouse on methadone, Doc. I can walk ON the bodies and not flinch.

But I read on Facebook that addicts all get free treatment while the rest of us suckers pay for our healthcare.

 

[HoughMade]

My father had terminal prostate cancer, and he an my mother very much wanted him to be at home when he died. The Hospice out of Lexington, Ky. advised them to not call for help when he was dying or he would be taken to the hospital, and would spend his last hours there.

My saddest memory of the whole time was after he died and we had moved the bed out of the dining room where he stayed (there was no bedroom on the first floor of their house) and some other stuff, there were a pair of his shoes, empty, in the corner. It is strange what hits you.

The other story from this, which is on-topic to the thread, is that a nurse from the insurance company called my mother a couple of months before he died and said he was on very strong pain killers and they needed to be worried about addiction. I worry that a side effect of the addiction epidemic is that the terminally ill in severe pain will not get the pain killers they need. My father was USMC in the World War II, and was a pretty tough guy, but the cancer pain, even with pain killers, was hard to take.

I understand your concerns. My Dad died on March 6th and we had "hospice at home". All I can say is that we had no issues getting morphine for him that both helped with the pain and helped his breathing. Being an adult sure sucks at times like these.