Colin Kaepernick protests the Anthem

[jamil]

out of control......

ESPN's Wilbon Compares Jerry Jones to Slaveowner Over NFL Protests | Fox News Insider

Kut?

 

[churchmouse]

I just read this on FB. It pretty much states why so many are leaving the the fan base.
You can nod in agreement or frown in disgust. That is your right.

This explains what the media does not seem to understand:
An open letter to the NFL players,

You graduated high school in 2011. Your teenage years were a struggle. You grew up on the wrong side of the tracks. Your mother was the leader of the family and worked tirelessly to keep a roof over your head and food on your plate. Academics were a struggle for you and your grades were mediocre at best. The only thing that made you stand out is you weighed 225 lbs and could run 40 yards in 4.2 seconds while carrying a football. Your best friend was just like you, except he didn’t play football. Instead of going to football practice after school, he went to work at McDonalds for minimum wage. You were recruited by all the big colleges and spent every weekend of your senior year making visits to universities where coaches and boosters tried to convince you their school was best. They laid out the red carpet for you. Your best friend worked double shifts at Mickey D’s. College was not an option for him. On the day you signed with Big State University, your best friend signed paperwork with his Army recruiter. You went to summer workouts. He went to basic training.
You spent the next four years living in the athletic dorm, eating at the training table. You spent your Saturdays on the football field, cheered on by adoring fans. Tutors attended to your every academic need. You attended class when you felt like it. Sure, you worked hard. You lifted weights, ran sprints, studied plays, and soon became one of the top football players in the country. Your best friend was assigned to the 101st Airborne Division. While you were in college, he deployed to Iraq once and Afghanistan twice. He became a Sergeant and led a squad of 19 year old soldiers who grew up just like he did. He shed his blood in Afghanistan and watched young American's give their lives, limbs, and innocence for the USA.
You went to the NFL combine and scored off the charts. You hired an agent and waited for draft day. You were drafted in the first round and your agent immediately went to work, ensuring that you received the most money possible. You signed for $16 million although you had never played a single down of professional football. Your best friend re-enlisted in the Army for four more years. As a combat tested sergeant, he will be paid $32,000 per year.
You will drive a Ferrari on the streets of South Beach. He will ride in the back of a Blackhawk helicopter with 10 other combat loaded soldiers. You will sleep at the Ritz. He will dig a hole in the ground and try to sleep. You will “make it rain” in the club. He will pray for rain as the temperature reaches 120 degrees.
On Sunday, you will run into a stadium as tens of thousands of fans cheer and yell your name. For your best friend, there is little difference between Sunday and any other day of the week. There are no adoring fans. There are only people trying to kill him and his soldiers. Every now and then, he and his soldiers leave the front lines and “go to the rear” to rest. He might be lucky enough to catch an NFL game on TV. When the National Anthem plays and you take a knee, he will jump to his feet and salute the television While you protest the unfairness of life in the United States, he will give thanks to God that he has the honor of defending his great country.
To the players of the NFL: We are the people who buy your tickets, watch you on TV, and wear your jerseys. We anxiously wait for Sundays so we can cheer for you and marvel at your athleticism. Although we love to watch you play, we care little about your opinions until you offend us. You have the absolute right to express yourselves, but we have the absolute right to boycott you. We have tolerated your drug use and DUIs, your domestic violence, and your vulgar displays of wealth. We should be ashamed for putting our admiration of your physical skills before what is morally right. But now you have gone too far. You have insulted our flag, our country, our soldiers, our police officers, and our veterans. You are living the American dream, yet you disparage our great country. I am done with NFL football and encourage all like minded Americans to boycott the NFL as well.

 

[Birds Away]

I keep hearing about a "movement" but I can't detect any actual motion. This effort has been going on for over a year, what progress has been made? Where are any discussions being held about the actual issue rather than just about the protests? If this is truly about bringing an important issue into the national discussion why is no one discussing it? Why don't the media types and others who claim sympathy and solidarity with the players ever actually discuss what these protests are about?

I strongly support the players' first amendment right to free speech. But the first amendment only protects one from the government. It does not shield anyone from their employer or the economic backlash from their fellow citizens. They have every right to kneel during the anthem. Their employer has every right to take disciplinary action for breaching societal expectations while representing the team. Granted the union will have some say over this through collective bargaining but that is a side issue.

Protest is a tool used to bring an injustice to the public's attention. This is used to create dialogue about the issue and to exert pressure to foster change. Since the protesters are thus far not actually speaking about the issue, all of their actions so far have been for nothing. All of the individuals protesting in this manner are supposedly college educated. They give interviews all the time. Why can't one of them actually talk about the issue or what actions they are seeking?

In order for there to be a national discussion the dialogue has to start somewhere. If there is an actual message I wish someone would get around to sharing it.

 

[churchmouse]

I keep hearing about a "movement" but I can't detect any actual motion. This effort has been going on for over a year, what progress has been made? Where are any discussions being held about the actual issue rather than just about the protests? If this is truly about bringing an important issue into the national discussion why is no one discussing it? Why don't the media types and others who claim sympathy and solidarity with the players ever actually discuss what these protests are about?

I strongly support the players' first amendment right to free speech. But the first amendment only protects one from the government. It does not shield anyone from their employer or the economic backlash from their fellow citizens. They have every right to kneel during the anthem. Their employer has every right to take disciplinary action for breaching societal expectations while representing the team. Granted the union will have some say over this through collective bargaining but that is a side issue.

Protest is a tool used to bring an injustice to the public's attention. This is used to create dialogue about the issue and to exert pressure to foster change. Since the protesters are thus far not actually speaking about the issue, all of their actions so far have been for nothing. All of the individuals protesting in this manner are supposedly college educated. They give interviews all the time. Why can't one of them actually talk about the issue or what actions they are seeking?

In order for there to be a national discussion the dialogue has to start somewhere. If there is an actual message I wish someone would get around to sharing it.

The 1st amendment is so misunderstood and often abused in this fashion.

You would only smile at some of the PM's I get when I ask members (not all of course but a enough to mention) to step back a notch and tone it down. Especially if an infraction is given for actions and or language. The offending member sites his/her 1st amendment rights in defense of their actions.
OK, you have that right but it does not apply across the board. This is a privately owned sight. The owners set the rules to come in here and use it. Break any of those rules and you might be shown the door. Your rights end at that door when you enter. The norms you have to follow are part of the rules package.
This is a simplistic example but the same thing applies to this issue.

 

[jamil]

One thing I'd like to say about the flag waving. The flag doesn't exclusively represent our soldiers, our police officers, and our veterans. It's a symbol of the nation, a country made up of individual citizens. It represents us, every citizen, not just the people who protect it.

Kneeling during the anthem, when the tradition is to stand, is the right of individuals to do. But there is a symbology to that too. Just as standing represents respect for the country, kneeling represents disrespect for the country, and not just to the people who served.

Some people like to call people snowflakes who might be offended for such things. Well. **** them. Falling apart and asking for a safe space, because someone "misgendered" you, is absolutely snowflake behavior. In contrast, the people deciding not to watch spoiled rich crybabies play a game aren't asking for safe spaces. They just don't find these spoiled rich entertainers lumping the whole nation in specious claims, all that entertaining.

 

[billybob44]

GREAT Post #1902 Church...

Thanks for the FB copy of the two friends..

This kind of describes my family-4 adult children--3 with college degreed jobs, 1 with a "Degree" from the 101'st Airborne .

I guess the difference for our family is that ALL of our family stands for the Flag, and any opportunity to support our Country and our Freedom..

Thanks again for the FB copy..Bill.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Kut?

I don't compare anything to slavery, unless it's slavery. I owe my ancestors that much, and won't trivialize what they endured.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I keep hearing about a "movement" but I can't detect any actual motion. This effort has been going on for over a year, what progress has been made? Where are any discussions being held about the actual issue rather than just about the protests? If this is truly about bringing an important issue into the national discussion why is no one discussing it? Why don't the media types and others who claim sympathy and solidarity with the players ever actually discuss what these protests are about?

I strongly support the players' first amendment right to free speech. But the first amendment only protects one from the government. It does not shield anyone from their employer or the economic backlash from their fellow citizens. They have every right to kneel during the anthem. Their employer has every right to take disciplinary action for breaching societal expectations while representing the team. Granted the union will have some say over this through collective bargaining but that is a side issue.

Protest is a tool used to bring an injustice to the public's attention. This is used to create dialogue about the issue and to exert pressure to foster change. Since the protesters are thus far not actually speaking about the issue, all of their actions so far have been for nothing. All of the individuals protesting in this manner are supposedly college educated. They give interviews all the time. Why can't one of them actually talk about the issue or what actions they are seeking?

In order for there to be a national discussion the dialogue has to start somewhere. If there is an actual message I wish someone would get around to sharing it.

Have you actually looked, or have you been like most people who dislike the protests and automatically dismissed the protests?

 

[Kutnupe14]

The NFL rules already direct team behavior during the national anthem. Because of the ****-storm, teams are now enforcing the rules. It was a ****ty way to protest. It was actually a ****ty thing to protest. The country doesn't oppress black people and people of color.

Disagree... and amazingly enough, it seems most people of color (and a lot of people without color) seem to agree.

 

[Birds Away]

Have you actually looked, or have you been like most people who dislike the protests and automatically dismissed the protests?

I've looked and not found anything. So, please tell me where to look. I am interested in this topic and seeing some actual dialogue. This is an issue that creates division and if it is this important to a group of American citizens than it should be important to all of us.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Here's an interesting case of someone being triggered:

A woman was recorded throwing her drink on two men at a Los Angeles Lakers game for kneeling during the national anthem.
Haley Perea of California is the woman in the video who approaches two men of color who are seated and yells: 'Excuse me, this is for the national anthem you pieces of s***'.

Read more: Woman throws drink on Lakers fans for kneeling for anthem | Daily Mail Online

So, if this woman was charged with battery, which I assure you, is what she committed, and you sat on the jury, would you vote convict?

 

[Kutnupe14]

I've looked and not found anything. So, please tell me where to look. I am interested in this topic and seeing some actual dialogue. This is an issue that creates division and if it is this important to a group of American citizens than it should be important to all of us.

This was from yesterday:
Giants players that protested during national anthem meet with Newark police, youths | NJ.com

 

[jamil]

Here's an interesting case of someone being triggered:


Read more: Woman throws drink on Lakers fans for kneeling for anthem | Daily Mail Online

So, if this woman was charged with battery, which I assure you, is what she committed, and you sat on the jury, would you vote convict?

If the definition of battery includes the act she did, and it’s proven she did it, yes. Guilty. She has every right to speak her mind. She doesn’t have a right to do that.

 

[Kutnupe14]

If the definition of battery includes the act she did, and it’s proven she did it, yes. Guilty. She has every right to speak her mind. She doesn’t have a right to do that.

She's on video!

 

[Birds Away]

Disagree... and amazingly enough, it seems most people of color (and a lot of people without color) seem to agree.

I am certain there is silent racism perpetrated against individuals of every race every day. It is part of the human condition, unfortunately. The thing is, everyone, knowingly or unknowingly, is guilty of it to some degree. The question is how do we continue to move forward. Great strides have been made in this area in our lifetimes. That is something to be proud of even if the things that necessitated it are not. Sadly, while much progress has been made there are still huge issues including socio-economic factors that have remained stagnant for decades.

There are evil people among us. They use division to push a personal agenda. It happens on all sides of the equation. The vast majority of people want to do what's right. Most people don't want this hanging over everyone's head any longer. So, IMO, we first must acknowledge that the majority wants a positive change. Not everyone has negative thoughts about races other than their own. So the finger pointing, on all sides, must stop. We must find the common ground and continue to move forward. We must eliminate the sacred cows and not have topics that are forbidden to discuss. Let's start the dialogue with everyone's best interests in mind and do the right thing for our country and all of her citizens.

 

[jamil]

Disagree... and amazingly enough, it seems most people of color (and a lot of people without color) seem to agree.

I'm not sure what you're saying here. You need to make your antecedents clearer. I'm thinking you disagree with my statement. But I don't know if you're saying the group seems to agree with you, or agrees with my statement.

 

[jamil]

I am certain there is silent racism perpetrated against individuals of every race every day. It is part of the human condition, unfortunately. The thing is, everyone, knowingly or unknowingly, is guilty of it to some degree. The question is how do we continue to move forward. Great strides have been made in this area in our lifetimes. That is something to be proud of even if the things that necessitated it are not. Sadly, while much progress has been made there are still huge issues including socio-economic factors that have remained stagnant for decades.

There are evil people among us. They use division to push a personal agenda. It happens on all sides of the equation. The vast majority of people want to do what's right. Most people don't want this hanging over everyone's head any longer. So, IMO, we first must acknowledge that the majority wants a positive change. Not everyone has negative thoughts about races other than their own. So the finger pointing, on all sides, must stop. We must find the common ground and continue to move forward. We must eliminate the sacred cows and not have topics that are forbidden to discuss. Let's start the dialogue with everyone's best interests in mind and do the right thing for our country and all of her citizens.

If people only agreed on that one point. Kneeling is a sort of finger pointed at everyone, even the ones who don't want race to matter.

 

[Birds Away]

This was from yesterday:
Giants players that protested during national anthem meet with Newark police, youths | NJ.com

That's excellent. A very small step in the right direction. But this discussion needs to be national.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I'm not sure what you're saying here. You need to make your antecedents clearer. I'm thinking you disagree with my statement. But I don't know if you're saying the group seems to agree with you, or agrees with my statement.

My fault. I meant that I believe they agree with my stance.

 

[jamil]

This was from yesterday:
Giants players that protested during national anthem meet with Newark police, youths | NJ.com

"It's crazy how you get a lot of hateful comments, a lot of head shaking, a lot of eyes that are looking at you in disgust," Vernon said. "It's crazy how there's a lot of hate going on when you're just trying to do good for your community and for your country. It's very eye-opening."
​

Let's say you're a performer, taking the money of the fans around you, and you stick a middle finger up at the whole crowd and say "**** you". The reaction you get you might interpret as hate. Surely you'll get some disgusted looks. People aren't going to treat you with respect, that's for sure.

If you're going to use your free speech, it's helpful to use it wisely in a way people understand what you're really protesting.

"A lot of times they see us in our uniforms and they don't get to see us outside of the field. And I think it's the same thing with the officers - they wanted to come and get to know the kids a little bit," Herzlich said. "As this is all swirling with the national anthem protests, it's important for us players to make it publicly known that we're not protesting against America, we're not protesting against our armed forces or the police. We just want equality. That's what our demonstration is about."
​

Then protest in a way that doesn't impugn America. Saying you can't honor the flag of a country that oppresses black people is blaming America. If you really didn't mean it that way, don't say it that way. The speaker has a greater responsibility in a successful communication transaction than the listener. If you kneel with the guy who said it that way, people will naturally think you're saying that to.