Do you believe in other life in the Universe?

[2A_Tom]

Smith was the best.

 

[actaeon277]

If radar can't detect it, then how did ground radar pick it up?

 

[actaeon277]

Bergenholm inertialess drive.

Infinite improbability drive.

 

[singlesix]

Infinite improbability drive.

42

 

[Alpo]

The tracking is awfully good. Granted, I don't know much about the current state of cyberoptics, but keeping that "thing" in the center of the screen while moving against the background? Hmmm.

[video=youtube_share;-9WDg7Rwy0o]http://youtu.be/-9WDg7Rwy0o[/video]

 

[2A_Tom]

Just like the mocked up moon landing, it is a ploy to keep the sheep sending in their taxes thinking it is doing something worthwhile.

 

[T.Lex]

The tracking is awfully good. Granted, I don't know much about the current state of cyberoptics, but keeping that "thing" in the center of the screen while moving against the background? Hmmm.

That FLIR can basically go into a "TV" kind of mode. Whatever the object is in the center of the screen, if there's enough contrast with the background, will be designated and locked, to the best of the computer's ability. In the video, IIRC, it breaks lock once and the pilot has to redesignate it. Then, it breaks the lock again when it "accelerates" and disappears.

Here's a totally sales pitch kinda video about the unit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxPNfYuNuaM

It also helps that the target appears - while locked - to move smoothly relative to the Superbug.

ETA:
HA! Raytheon is actually using the event to promote the unit.
https://www.raytheon.com/news/feature/uap_atflir.html

 

[Alpo]

OK. Thanks. I can see that tracking can be independent of aircraft movement over some range. Still looks like a gyro to me though.

 

[2A_Tom]

LOL this is good.

 

[T.Lex]

OK. Thanks. I can see that tracking can be independent of aircraft movement over some range. Still looks like a gyro to me though.

Well, I'm sure there are gyros and gimbals involved.

In skimming the literature, I don't see any mention of the laser designator being used. That would be another interesting data point - whether the laser was able to get a reflection off of the object.

 

[BugI02]

The tracking is awfully good. Granted, I don't know much about the current state of cyberoptics, but keeping that "thing" in the center of the screen while moving against the background? Hmmm.

Oh come on, Alpo. You've seen plenty of near perfectly stable videos of bomb impact sites as the bombs come in and the aircraft is maneuvering. This is actually easier as it was a level turn at 20000 feet and 250 kts. The moving cloud tops in the video IMO make it harder to fake and the swift rotation and precise stop of the object about what might be its center of mass while under high aerodynamic forces would not be possible for any known vehicle

 

[Alpo]

In most/many views, a disk (rotating or stationary) appears to be elliptical. So, viewing a lozenge shape isn't anything really new. The rapid movements logically seem to be more akin to optical aberrations than physical displacement. I'm still not buyin' it.

The "swift rotation", Bug, reminds me of optical lensing effects. I can't put my finger on it yet, but it will come to me. And if I can think of it, it's probably on youtube somewhere.

 

[BugI02]

If radar can't detect it, then how did ground radar pick it up?

The article T.Lex referenced That Time the U.S. Navy Had a Close Encounter With a UFO references weak returns on the Aegis radars, enough to track from a distance

Speculation here, but if whatever field is interfering with EM is spherical or elliptical, the farther away the receiver is would make reflecting all radiation away from the receiver progressively harder

 

[T.Lex]

In most/many views, a disk (rotating or stationary) appears to be elliptical. So, viewing a lozenge shape isn't anything really new. The rapid movements logically seem to be more akin to optical aberrations than physical displacement. I'm still not buyin' it.

As a long time Doubting Thomas, I can absolutely relate.

If it were just the FLIR, with the smooth rotation, it may have been some sort of strange glare or smudge or environmental oddity. Frankly, if it were just that video, I would suspect a fake.

But, we also have the visual, from apparently multiple sources, with no reason to lie at the time they made the statements. On that topic, without a sense of the size of something, it is REALLY difficult to gauge distance. So, I'm more than willing to view the estimates of size/distance from the -18s with some skepticism. But, I feel like I have to concede the presence of something in that area. (Plus, with 2 sets of Mark-1 eyeballs viewing the same thing at the same time, that makes it easier for them to gauge size/distance relative to the known size/distance of the other aircraft.)

We also have the longer-range tracking radar that appears to confirm the presence of something unidentified at the same location, at the same time.

In terms of the unidentified submerged thing, there's a long-standing theory about the Bermuda triangle that there are "gas leaks" (for lack of a better term) from the ocean floor that bubble up and change the density of the water, causing boats to sink. Something like that would be consistent with what the pilot saw in the water.

If we want to say "it isn't aliens" (which I'm more than happy to say), then it behooves us to try to sort out - at least conceptually - what it could be. "It" being either an object or a phenomenon.

 

[Alpo]

Methane release from the ocean floor is pretty common on the California continental shelf...so that might be one possible explanation.

What I've heard listening to the pilot is that they circled the object and it appeared to maintain a 180 synchronisation with their aircraft. When the lead pilot approached directly across the "circle" the UFO disappeared quickly. It really sounds like optical effects.

I'd be all for the presence of an alien species on the planet if only for the monkey wrench it would throw into fundamentalist religio-zealotry. But for all the reasons Carl Sagan listed so many years ago, i'm extremely skeptical.

 

[jamil]

I'm with Alpo. I ain't buying it. Belief requires more than this.

 

[BugI02]

As a long time Doubting Thomas, I can absolutely relate.

If it were just the FLIR, with the smooth rotation, it may have been some sort of strange glare or smudge or environmental oddity. Frankly, if it were just that video, I would suspect a fake.

But, we also have the visual, from apparently multiple sources, with no reason to lie at the time they made the statements. On that topic, without a sense of the size of something, it is REALLY difficult to gauge distance. So, I'm more than willing to view the estimates of size/distance from the -18s with some skepticism. But, I feel like I have to concede the presence of something in that area. (Plus, with 2 sets of Mark-1 eyeballs viewing the same thing at the same time, that makes it easier for them to gauge size/distance relative to the known size/distance of the other aircraft.)

We also have the longer-range tracking radar that appears to confirm the presence of something unidentified at the same location, at the same time.

In terms of the unidentified submerged thing, there's a long-standing theory about the Bermuda triangle that there are "gas leaks" (for lack of a better term) from the ocean floor that bubble up and change the density of the water, causing boats to sink. Something like that would be consistent with what the pilot saw in the water.

If we want to say "it isn't aliens" (which I'm more than happy to say), then it behooves us to try to sort out - at least conceptually - what it could be. "It" being either an object or a phenomenon.

"Yeah, you've got it. Time machines." - Miller

 

[BugI02]

I'm with Alpo. I ain't buying it. Belief requires more than this.

But it's very interesting either way - whether trying to spot the fake or spooling up the level of credence based on the difficulty of the former

 

[T.Lex]

Methane release from the ocean floor is pretty common on the California continental shelf...so that might be one possible explanation.

What I've heard listening to the pilot is that they circled the object and it appeared to maintain a 180 synchronisation with their aircraft. When the lead pilot approached directly across the "circle" the UFO disappeared quickly. It really sounds like optical effects.

I'd be all for the presence of an alien species on the planet if only for the monkey wrench it would throw into fundamentalist religio-zealotry. But for all the reasons Carl Sagan listed so many years ago, i'm extremely skeptical.

I'm with Alpo. I ain't buying it. Belief requires more than this.

So, yes. The circling thing reminded me of an anecdote I heard from a Marine Hornet pilot. They were on a training mission around dusk. When he started he dropped the visor on his helmet to stymy the setting sun's rays. As night started, he flipped on his external lights. They went through some training cycles, including mid air refueling. He found it more difficult than usual to connect, but he managed. As he departed the refueler, he notice a faint light to his side that was tracking him exactly. It maintained a static point relative to his position, which he'd been trained to perceive as an intercept course - a HUGE risk of a collision. He freaked out a bit and was about to call for someone to help identify the traffic, when he realized he still had his visor down.

For a significant period of the post-dusk training, he'd been doing it with the effective analog of sunglasses on. When he saw the "faint" light, it was his own wingtip light.

I mention that because it illustrates how we can perceive things differently than they actually are. The same goes for all sorts of electronic sensors. Radars can pick up massive flocks of geese, moths, or locusts. FLIR shows differences in temperature, regardless "what" the source is.

In this instance, it is the cross-sensor corroboration that is unique, at least to me.

In terms of belief, it is completely reasonable to disbelieve it is aliens. Many can be satisfied with, "I don't know what it is, but I know what it isn't." For me, I feel compelled by curiosity to at least try to figure out what it MIGHT be.

In the Holmesian sense, by eliminating everything it isn't, we are left with what it is, however improbable it might be.

 

[printcraft]

...........What I've heard listening to the pilot is that they circled the object and it appeared to maintain a 180 synchronisation with their aircraft. When the lead pilot approached directly across the "circle" the UFO disappeared quickly. It really sounds like optical effects.......

Do optical effects have mass that will reflect radar?

VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV

We also have the longer-range tracking radar that appears to confirm the presence of something unidentified at the same location, at the same time.