Russian ambassador shot!

[BugI02]

Yeah, when Putin went into Syria, my thought was he was testing Russian capabilities.

I'm starting to think that it was no test - he already knew it would work - or that the experiment proved fruitful. Paired with the success on the Crimean peninsula, he may really believe Russia is invincible.

Perhaps worse, those around him may believe themselves to be invincible by their proximity to him. I almost think it is a matter of time before certain oligarchs who stray too far from his vision are prosecuted or die mysteriously.

Wait.

That's already happened.

Vis a vis peeps thinking Putin is controlled by the oligarchs, I've been on record for some time being of the opinion that dog has already slipped the chain. I think his erstwhile masters are already locked into a more Stalinesque relationship with/to him trying to avoid guided tours of Lefortovo. I think the bulk of the apparatus of the state is loyal to the man, not the power structure

 

[BugI02]

Just isolating to this one issue, can you really fault any nation for this point of view? Traditionally we have hung traitors in this country. Going outside of borders to do it, or using chemical weapons to do it, or combining both certainly should ruffle some feathers, but can you really fault them for hunting down and killing traitors? So far, it seems that all sides have maintained the professional courtesy of not murdering foreign spies, opting to expel them instead (as far as we know). Traitors/double agents being a different matter.

I'm with you in this view, with reservations. The part of me that sees the Bradley Manning-thing as nothing but a traitor can empathize with those in the Russian military who would feel the same about Skripal. But the deliberate, Byzantine, horror-show killing methods (polonium 210, novichok etc) are nothing but terrorism, with the target likely being anyone thinking about similar exploits more than those who already have

I don't see this as an attempt to silence dissident voices because these people weren't particularly noted or effective in that role

 

[T.Lex]

Picking up on that last point, it is a strange mix, eh? Some of the victims are betrayers of Mother Russia. But, others are just political or business opponents.

I guess there's also another option: maybe Putin used his personal millions (billions?) to fund the project that resulted in killing his opponents. He could easily blur the line between state and private actions.

 

[BugI02]

I'm starting to see him as predominantly a psychopath who has accessed the levers of power, much more a proto-Stalin in this. There may be reasons for these events that are obscure to me, but it's starting to have more of a Idi Amin or Kim Jong-Un feel to it - my enemies must die horribly for no other reason than I perceive them as my enemies. It seems personal and it seems he enjoys it

 

[SnoopLoggyDog]

Putin is acting out the techniques of his most ruthless KGB predecessors. Look up the history of;

Felix Dzerzhinsky

Lavrentiy Beriya

Yuri Andropov

Putin was one of the Directors to the FSB, (the successor to the KGB). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Security_Service

Targeted killing[edit]

In the summer of 2006, the FSB was given the legal power to engage in targeted killing of terrorism suspects overseas if so ordered by the president.[SUP][38][/SUP]
Claims of intimidation of foreign diplomats and journalists[edit]

The FSB has been accused by The Guardian of using psychological techniques to intimidate western diplomatic staff and journalists, with the intention of making them curtail their work in Russia early.[SUP][41][/SUP] The techniques allegedly involve entering targets' houses, moving household items around, replacing items with similar (but slightly different) items, and even sending sex toys to a male target's wife, all with the intention of confusing and scaring the target.[SUP][41][/SUP] Guardian journalist, Luke Harding, claims to have been the subject of such techniques.[SUP][41][/SUP]

 

[T.Lex]

I don't think he's anywhere near the level of Beriya yet. Although, perhaps that's his goal. One thing he's learned is that it can be more effective to target individuals than try to take out large groups. Well, so far.

In other news, NATO is doing some rhetorical sabre-rattling, too.

Spy poisoning: Russia 'underestimates UK allies' - Nato - BBC News

Again, I can't help but think of the tangle of treaties that led to WWI.

 

[spencer rifle]

Again, I can't help but think of the tangle of treaties that led to WWI.

That didn't end so well for Russia. Though it did bring the Soviets to power. Come to think of it, that didn't end so well for Russia either.

 

[roscott]

I'm late to the party. I haven't followed the situation with Russia very closely, but it seems to be escalating and I'd like to catch up. Most news articles seem to be pretty slanted toward either it's-no-big-deal or it's-WWIII. Can someone maybe link me to an article that summarize the situation as it stands now? (AKA Russia-for-dummies?)

 

[T.Lex]

I'm late to the party. I haven't followed the situation with Russia very closely, but it seems to be escalating and I'd like to catch up. Most news articles seem to be pretty slanted toward either it's-no-big-deal or it's-WWIII. Can someone maybe link me to an article that summarize the situation as it stands now? (AKA Russia-for-dummies?)

Thank you for asking! I opened up this other thread to cover this whole topic better.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...ral-russian-foreign-entanglements-thread.html

I'll post something over there for you.

 

[AmmoManAaron]

Kinda different. This particular Russian traitor was in Russian custody, and then released in a swap. You think it's fair game, after an agreement with another nation to have that person released, to violate their national sovereignty and then murder the guy?

I don't really think it's "fair game", but it sort of reminds me of the frog and the scorpion with Russia in the role of the scorpion. And they definitely did violate the UK's sovereignty - pretty ****ty and would **** me off if they pulled a stunt like that in the U.S.

Yeah, if this was a dude who the Brits exfiltrated or who had fled, I would see it as much less of a big deal than accepting a bunch of your spies back in exchange and then offing him. Hell, they had already tried and convicted him and declined to execute him.

Agreed. I wasn't all that familiar with the guy and didn't know Russia had tried, convicted, and then declined to execute him. Pretty interesting. Makes me think one of two things happened:
1.) He did something recently while in the U.K. (revealed new info? helped hack something?) and the attack was retribution.
2.) Russia declined to execute him solely to make a trade and fully intended to just kill him at a later date. IMHO, really ****ty and would be grounds for a tit for tat assassination by the U.K. or other involved nation - which does come with the risk of further escalation.

 

[AmmoManAaron]

Picking up on that last point, it is a strange mix, eh? Some of the victims are betrayers of Mother Russia. But, others are just political or business opponents.

Yeah, that's why I said just isolating it to traitors. The assassination of political and business opponents is completely out of line. For that matter, knowing the details of the Skirpal guy, that was possibly very out of line too - beyond just the violation of sovereignty. The various methods used are indeed designed to send a message, they are a calling card. As I said initially, feathers should be ruffled by it all. I believe we are much more discrete...heart attacks, drug overdoses, etc.

 

[Fargo]

Yeah, that's why I said just isolating it to traitors. The assassination of political and business opponents is completely out of line. For that matter, knowing the details of the Skirpal guy, that was possibly very out of line too - beyond just the violation of sovereignty. The various methods used are indeed designed to send a message, they are a calling card. As I said initially, feathers should be ruffled by it all. I believe we are much more discrete...heart attacks, drug overdoses, etc.

Obama did it with drone launched missiles!

It's still fascinates me that a Democrat president was the one to authorize open assassination of US citizens without trial.

 

[AmmoManAaron]

Obama did it with drone launched missiles!

It's still fascinates me that a Democrat president was the one to authorize open assassination of US citizens without trial.

Well, that is a very fascinating point. Killed in a foreign country, with no trial, and certainly not in a subtle way.

Someone tell me again how we operate differently than the Russians?

ETA: I still think he needed to die, but that is my viewpoint, which would obviously differ from that of someone from certain other countries.

ETA: Thinking now about how Hillary wanted to drone Assange. Wouldn't that count as murdering a political enemy? Again, pot meet kettle.