COUNTER PROTEST March 24th "March for Our Lives" - VALPARAISO

[Hotrod29]

I find it comical that people on "our side" still think there's a chance to educate and convert these people through meaningful dialogue. At best you might convince them that not all guns should be banned but you'll never in a million years convert them to "shall not be infringed".

The politicians are the only people I'm worried about convincing or warning...

 

[Cameramonkey]

I find it comical that people on "our side" still think there's a chance to educate and convert these people through meaningful dialogue. At best you might convince them that not all guns should be banned but you'll never in a million years convert them to "shall not be infringed".

The politicians are the only people I'm worried about convincing or warning...

Im ok with this. Its a start.

 

[Hotrod29]

LOL

 

[churchmouse]

I find it comical that people on "our side" still think there's a chance to educate and convert these people through meaningful dialogue. At best you might convince them that not all guns should be banned but you'll never in a million years convert them to "shall not be infringed".

The politicians are the only people I'm worried about convincing or warning...

There are some very level headed folks on "Our" side. They mostly hold to the mindset that people can be swayed with reasonable conversation and exchange of real world facts.

In this I used to be a part. Until so many attempts to have any dialog with "Those" people on any subject they disagree with me on. Religion/politics/guns. It is useless at least 75% (possibly more) of the time. When the conversation ends up one sided with positive reality checks they revert in stages from sound bites/labels and name calling to shouting you down and cussing. It is the play book. Once invested in this process they will not be swayed.

The other 25% were on the fence from the begining. They can be swayed but breaking them off from the comfy safe zone of the group is again tough.

Until we as a group stand united we will not succeed.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

I find it comical that people on "our side" still think there's a chance to educate and convert these people through meaningful dialogue. At best you might convince them that not all guns should be banned but you'll never in a million years convert them to "shall not be infringed".

The politicians are the only people I'm worried about convincing or warning...

One problem is the use of the word "them" here. Not everyone on INGO has the exact same views on firearms. We have some moderates, we have some semi-antis, we have some extremists, and we have people that like things exactly how they are.

The "other side" has the same... varying levels of opinions on what they think the 2A should be like... from moderates to extremists.

It's just that... the extremists are the loudest, they are the vast minority, but they're the ones you'll see the most of. Same with "our side", unfortunately.

Both sides of issues are always misrepresented by their extremes. I see myself, on the 2A topic, probably closer to the extreme than moderate with regards to what I think people should be "allowed" to have... I'm not really loud about it though. "Ban all guns" is an extremist position. Hell, even "ban all semi-automatics" is an extremist position. #NotAllLiberals want to ban guns... just the loud ones that the right-leaning media focuses on.

Just like #NotAllConservatives want to arm teachers with an AA-12, 100-rd drum w/ dragon's breath ammunition... (as cool as that would be... imagine the lightshow at recess!)

When we stop seeing the black-and-white... stop dehumanizing an entire "side"... it becomes easier to find the ones willing to listen and have a conversation. Probably won't happen at a rally though.

 

[churchmouse]

Im ok with this. Its a start.

I am not. Every inch we give is another push towards a 1st down for them. They are goal oriented. Their end zone is full confiscation.

 

[Hotrod29]

You support no infringement or you're an enemy of the 2A. There is no in between. The fact that so many gun owners are in fact anti 2A has always been our problem.

 

[KLB]

I find it comical that people on "our side" still think there's a chance to educate and convert these people through meaningful dialogue. At best you might convince them that not all guns should be banned but you'll never in a million years convert them to "shall not be infringed".

The politicians are the only people I'm worried about convincing or warning...

You don't have to get them all the way to "shall not be infringed". It also isn't the hard core anti-gun people we need to work on. I have converted people to pro gun by having them out to shoot and talk about guns. Many of them live in IL and have gone through the arduous FOID process and have purchased guns. Some have even gone on to get their IL carry licenses.

Every person that becomes pro-gun is a good thing. It is another voice in talking to those politicians. They need numbers to convince them, not just loud voices.

 

[Hotrod29]

You don't have to get them all the way to "shall not be infringed". It also isn't the hard core anti-gun people we need to work on. I have converted people to pro gun by having them out to shoot and talk about guns. Many of them live in IL and have gone through the arduous FOID process and have purchased guns. Some have even gone on to get their IL carry licenses.

Every person that becomes pro-gun is a good thing. It is another voice in talking to those politicians. They need numbers to convince them, not just loud voices.

Guarantee you never converted someone that attended anti gun rallies.

Owning guns doesn't make you pro 2A.

 

[churchmouse]

Guarantee you never converted someone that attended anti gun rallies.

Owning guns doesn't make you pro 2A.

In our circle we have converted so many. Granted none of them carried signs at rally's but they were anti gun. Anti 2A was not what they discussed with me.Just guns and so many that owned them that should not.
We have a few lined up for this spring to finish the conversion. 2 are NFL players and 1 is a teacher. We do all we can in our own way.
As mentioned in other posts I would not be able to stay cool in the face of the idiocy (I will not use "They"...) that seems to be the norm at those protests.
Many have stated there was some good conversations. I can do that. I can not be involved in a spittle slinging confrontation. So I avoid.

 

[2A_Tom]

Purists, all or nothing, get nothing mostly. We've gotten where we are because progressives are masters of incrementalism.

We have to fight and win the small battles. A National Reciprocity bill. Get silencers off NFA. Repeal Hughes. Repeal School GFZ. every little step may take years, but we need to keep the pressure on.

The war can not be won all at once.

 

[Cameramonkey]

I am not. Every inch we give is another push towards a 1st down for them. They are goal oriented. Their end zone is full confiscation.

My point was that the extremists will never be changed, however there are some that we can pull back from the edge and change their minds even slightly. That one person I convince that not all guns are bad is one less person calling for an outright ban. How is that not good? Is it great? No. But it beats a sharp stick in the eye.

If I have a choice of the above or nothing, I'll take moderating some antis.

 

[Hotrod29]

Purists, all or nothing, get nothing mostly. We've gotten where we are because progressives are masters of incrementalism.

We have to fight and win the small battles. A National Reciprocity bill. Get silencers off NFA. Repeal Hughes. Repeal School GFZ. every little step may take years, but we need to keep the pressure on.

The war can not be won all at once.

So much this


Honestly, at this point the only thing I'm truly interested in is convincing fellow gun owners and politicians that the 2A isn't subject to a vote. It's a protected right that can't be overturned regardless of laws, court rulings, or even constitutional amendments.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Purists, all or nothing, get nothing mostly. We've gotten where we are because progressives are masters of incrementalism.

We have to fight and win the small battles. A National Reciprocity bill. Get silencers off NFA. Repeal Hughes. Repeal School GFZ. every little step may take years, but we need to keep the pressure on.

The war can not be won all at once.

We may not like it, but society (and complacence) dictates what a country will tolerate changing. 2A is never going to be better than it is today. It will always be chipped away at, little by little. States may pull back here and there, or a bone might be thrown (Reciprocity?) in exchange for something else... but it will never be the 100% pro-gun society that some people want it to be. Ever. That is an absolute fact.

Convert as many as we want, it won't be enough to fight back against an increasingly anti-gun (or merely not pro-gun) society.

And who's to say that's wrong? If the people end up wanting more gun restrictions, and it truly becomes a majority in the country decades down the line... if there's no one left to fight for it... isn't that how it should turn out (as bad as it would probably be)?

People can choose to be subservient to their governments, we see it all around. It'll eventually happen here. Hopefully not in my lifetime.

 

[Hotrod29]

And who's to say that's wrong? If the people end up wanting more gun restrictions, and it truly becomes a majority in the country decades down the line... if there's no one left to fight for it... isn't that how it should turn out (as bad as it would probably be)?

People can choose to be subservient to their governments, we see it all around. It'll eventually happen here. Hopefully not in my lifetime.

That's why we are a Republic. Our rights are sacred, not subject to popular opinion.

What if society decided (voted) to take your property? I mean hey, if the majority wants to then it can't be wrong......

 

[ArcadiaGP]

That's why we are a Republic. Our rights are sacred, not subject to popular opinion.

What if society decided (voted) to take your property? I mean hey, if the majority wants to then it can't be wrong......

England, the Netherlands, Spain, Cambodia... These used to be Republics. Can always change if the wrong person gets into power. Granted, we should have measures to prevent that... but best laid plans and whatnot.

 

[2A_Tom]

That's why we are a Republic. Our rights are sacred, not subject to popular opinion.

What if society decided (voted) to take your property? I mean hey, if the majority wants to then it can't be wrong......

The already have. You do not own property, you rent it from the gubmint.

 

[Hotrod29]

The already have. You do not own property, you rent it from the gubmint.

Only because we (collectively) have allowed it, not because it's "right"

 

[Hotrod29]

England, the Netherlands, Spain, Cambodia... These used to be Republics. Can always change if the wrong person gets into power. Granted, we should have measures to prevent that... but best laid plans and whatnot.

That's what the 2A is for.....

 

[KellyinAvon]

We will never sway the loud anti 2A 10% unless they become crime victims. We're maybe 10% and going after the 80% which has the Fudds and butters. Plus a lot of folks who would like to be left alone.