Do you believe in other life in the Universe?

[T.Lex]

Not sure how it would? Us being the only life doesn't really negate arguments for evolution and whatnot, does it?

Though, regardless of what we discover... both sides will take all new evidence as proof they're right... it's not like either can be proven wrong anyway.

Jesus Chris him(xer?)self could appear in Indianapolis, and people would just discount them as a homeless man on drugs. Alternatively, an entire civilization could be found a galaxy away, and people would say it's part of his plan or something,

You are of course, correct. Just like, for me, the existence of ET doesn't change my view of God, it is a reasonable position for the non-religious to say it doesn't change their view. It just mean that math worked out in our favor.

But, as Kut alludes to, I think there's a deeper meaning. If humanity is the evolutionary pinnacle within the universe, the there's the intelligent design issue. Or, to me, the related position that our existence is a mathematical miracle. Something that shouldn't have happened, but did.

Moreover, it could lend credence to the Genesis passage that grants humans dominion over everything. We would have that. We could go forth and multiply across the universe (assuming inhabitable planets exist and we had the technology to get there).

Funny thing is, we have no clue what the chances are of life or intelligent life developing. If there was other intelligent life, how would we ever know? We wouldn't be able to tell if there was something on the other side of our galaxy, let alone in any of the untold number of galaxies in the Universe.

Yeah, that's something that the stats people try to take into account.

For practical purposes, I think it makes sense to limit the inquiry to "now." It doesn't matter if there was an intelligent life form in alpha centauri 100,000 years ago, but died out in an extinction event.

 

[KLB]

Not yet... but I have supreme confidence that we will have the ability, at some point to figure it out. Then hopefully, someone will construct a Babylon station, so we aren't destroyed.

I don't. We have seen an estimated 100 Billion Galaxies so far. They predict that number will grow in the future. If each of those galaxies only had 1 million stars, that would be 1 quadrillion stars. And those are just the ones we can see today.

 

[WanderingSol07]

If you believe in God then you believe in aliens, God was not of this earth, he created it, he is not one of us, he created us. If God is omnipotent why would he/she/it just do one creation? If we were created in God's image, would that mean we have similar thought patterns too? I know I could not stop at just one creation, let alone one gun.

 

[KLB]

You are of course, correct. Just like, for me, the existence of ET doesn't change my view of God, it is a reasonable position for the non-religious to say it doesn't change their view. It just mean that math worked out in our favor.

But, as Kut alludes to, I think there's a deeper meaning. If humanity is the evolutionary pinnacle within the universe, the there's the intelligent design issue. Or, to me, the related position that our existence is a mathematical miracle. Something that shouldn't have happened, but did.

Moreover, it could lend credence to the Genesis passage that grants humans dominion over everything. We would have that. We could go forth and multiply across the universe (assuming inhabitable planets exist and we had the technology to get there).



Yeah, that's something that the stats people try to take into account.

For practical purposes, I think it makes sense to limit the inquiry to "now." It doesn't matter if there was an intelligent life form in alpha centauri 100,000 years ago, but died out in an extinction event.

And how would we ever know? Unless ET drops in and says hi of course. There could be intelligent life in one of the other 100 billion or so galaxies, and there would be no way we could ever tell.

As for the existence of other life affecting belief in God or not. If there were other life in the Universe, I would chalk the misunderstanding up to man's misunderstanding more than proof there is no God. Why would God create hundreds of billions of galaxies, with billions of stars and choose to only put life on one tiny spec in a corner? I would think of it more as a huge science experiment. Put the blocks in place and see what they do.

 

[JettaKnight]

If you believe in God then you believe in aliens, God was not of this earth, he created it, he is not one of us, he created us. If God is omnipotent why would he/she/it just do one creation? If we were created in God's image, would that mean we have similar thought patterns too? I know I could not stop at just one creation, let alone one gun.

An interesting theory.



But, here's the mind blower, why do you think He only created this one universe? Why not one universe for the humans, and another for the ....

Why try and fit everything into one universe?


What if they're all a different times, you know, a trillion years (or 10,000 for you young earth folks) for humans, then... God's got an infinite amount of time.


Maybe angels are the previous "humans".

 

[doddg]

Just saw this thread: fun reading. Only read 3 pages so far.
My opinion: don't have one.
I can't imagine if an alien had the technology to get here they'd be stupid enough to fly around having fun with our jets, or worse, yet: landing.
Crazy humans live here: you've got to be kidding.
Plus: there has to be a mother ship. Craft able to traverse the stars would not be able to fly in an atmosphere like ours.
But, I admit I only know what the latest Documentary tells me. The possibilities are fun, though!
Anyone remember "V" Be careful what you wish for with alien visitors.

 

[Alpo]

I was watching a video on Emergence Theory from the Quantum Gravitational Group. Basically, a bunch of new age stuff out of Los Angeles on 8th dimension crystals that relies on Platonic geometries and negates entropy. Folderol. No real basis and doesn't solve a dang thing. Garrett Lisi's work expanded without (it seems) resolving the questions of why the fundamental forces of nature are what they are.

The point is, all this stuff is just free thinking. There might be some value to it in the long run, but it certainly falls short of a scientific investigation and has less support than string theory (which has NO real support). The one thing of value in their entire exercise is the incorporation of consciousness into the exercise and its role in the determination of the physical universe and the relationship to time.

It's still just junk science, but probably keeps this group off drugs and welfare, so there's that....

I looked at the article and some opinions on it. The headline is misleading. But, people grab onto what they want to hear.

That is all.

 

[Alpo]

Oh right, but my question is a bit different. "We" are asked to assume there is life and then articulate whether that changes anything.

I'm just asking those few on here who I consider non-religious to do the same: assume we ARE the only life and articulate if that changes anything for them.

Point of view still leaves unsolved the questions of the nature of infinity and the what lies beyond the edge of the universe, for example. Only the Jews could construct a god who was as uncaring, egotistical and murderous as the god of the Book of Job. If that is what is left to discover about the nature of reality, then we are all ****ed.

 

[halfmileharry]

Just saw this thread: fun reading. Only read 3 pages so far.
My opinion: don't have one.
I can't imagine if an alien had the technology to get here they'd be stupid enough to fly around having fun with our jets, or worse, yet: landing.
Crazy humans live here: you've got to be kidding.
Plus: there has to be a mother ship. Craft able to traverse the stars would not be able to fly in an atmosphere like ours.
But, I admit I only know what the latest Documentary tells me. The possibilities are fun, though!
Anyone remember "V" Be careful what you wish for with alien visitors.

IF there are aliens from off this planet then we don't know how physics limits them. Only physics as we understand it.

 

[jamil]

I think this is just science covering it's butt. I'm a firm believer in life outside of our solar system. The idea that, considering the vastness of the universe, that the conditions that allowed life to evolve on earth isn't repeated, to one degree or another is astronomical.

I take a more agnostic/skeptical view, that absent evidence, there's no reason to believe. Going with the probabilities, yes the universe is vast, but to T.Lex's point, the probability of life beginning is vastly small. It's not zero though. So there's a lot more universe out there where there may be some life. And who says that the rare circumstances which allows biological life to start happened elsewhere first?

 

[jamil]

They invoke an inverse God of the gaps claim...that just because they haven't been discovered it yet, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

But that's a reasonable reciprocal. Just because we can't search everywhere that God may be, doesn't mean he doesn't exist. The same argument is logical for the existence of other life. Where I would differ with them is that it's problematic to assume there is life out there without some evidence, but the probabilities seem to favor that there probably is. And if there is, it's probably way, way out there. So far out there that it's unlikely that a means to find each other will ever exist, at least not within our understanding of the physical universe. 186,282 miles per second seems to be a hard speed limit within space and time. To travel far enough within a lifetime requires something beyond that.

 

[jamil]

Oh right, but my question is a bit different. "We" are asked to assume there is life and then articulate whether that changes anything.

I'm just asking those few on here who I consider non-religious to do the same: assume we ARE the only life and articulate if that changes anything for them.

Not a thing. But, I'd say that's an impossible question to answer in the foreseeable future. You can't prove a negative within an unknown domain. We can't look everywhere that God could possibly be to not find him, so therefore proving he doesn't exist is impossible. It's the same problem with life.

 

[jamil]

That's an interesting question, because that would be a fairly strong indication of intelligent design. I'm not sure exactly.

Maybe an interesting question, but it doesn't give any stronger indication of intelligent design. It's discrete math.

 

[jamil]

Funny thing is, we have no clue what the chances are of life or intelligent life developing. If there was other intelligent life, how would we ever know? We wouldn't be able to tell if there was something on the other side of our galaxy, let alone in any of the untold number of galaxies in the Universe.

Well, we can make some reasonable assumptions, and we can extrapolate some things about what is necessary for life–at least the life forms we understand. So I think we can ballpark some useful probabilities.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Why is it always spoken about in present or future terms. Why not past? Universe is old as ****, son. Intelligent life could have came and went many times over.

 

[jamil]

An interesting theory.



But, here's the mind blower, why do you think He only created this one universe? Why not one universe for the humans, and another for the ....

Why try and fit everything into one universe?


What if they're all a different times, you know, a trillion years (or 10,000 for you young earth folks) for humans, then... God's got an infinite amount of time.


Maybe angels are the previous "humans".

And maybe unicorns exist. I'm not trying to be MRJARRELL snarky, but just saying that there's not really much greater reason to believe the human/angel theory than to believe unicorns exist. At least we do have some photographic evidence of such creatures. Thanks to Princraft's multi-dimensional camera we have the image of Churchmouse feeding ice cream to at least one unicorn.

 

[halfmileharry]

And maybe unicorns exist. I'm not trying to be MRJARRELL snarky, but just saying that there's not really much greater reason to believe the human/angel theory than to believe unicorns exist. At least we do have some photographic evidence of such creatures. Thanks to Princraft's multi-dimensional camera we have the image of Churchmouse feeding ice cream to at least one unicorn.

I'll have to question the authenticity of said images.... I don't think CM would share Ice Cream with anyone except his family.

 

[jamil]

Why is it always spoken about in present or future terms. Why not past? Universe is old as ****, son. Intelligent life could have came and went many times over.

Could be. Best guess is that the universe had a beginning though. If through natural means, evolution, that **** takes a ****ing long time.

 

[printcraft]

I'll have to question the authenticity of said images.... I don't think CM would share Ice Cream with anyone except his family.

I don't know man, looks pretty realistic to me.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

But that's a reasonable reciprocal. Just because we can't search everywhere that God may be, doesn't mean he doesn't exist. The same argument is logical for the existence of other life. Where I would differ with them is that it's problematic to assume there is life out there without some evidence, but the probabilities seem to favor that there probably is. And if there is, it's probably way, way out there. So far out there that it's unlikely that a means to find each other will ever exist, at least not within our understanding of the physical universe. 186,282 miles per second seems to be a hard speed limit within space and time. To travel far enough within a lifetime requires something beyond that.

The expanding universe may well turn out to be a feature we may never adequately appreciate.