Is Darwinian Evolution going extinct?

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  • NKBJ

    at the ark
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    Apr 21, 2010
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    "Grand theory", huh?
    I have many thoughts on the matter due to having realized that the young Earth and Darwinian evolution theories are not tenable. I've thought about it off and on over the years. I thought about why would either theory be defended much less held so close to a persons heart. What I've come up with is people develop emotional attachment to ideas just like they do anything else. What I do know is what has been demonstrated to me. I know that Christ answers prayers. I know He is involved with people and this world on a personal level. I know that people who are deceased sometimes are involved here after they die (Mom and Grandad proved that). I know that people sometimes know things before they happen or when they happen far away, especially to people they love. I know people many miles away can share the same dream at the same time, sound asleep. I know that with practice people can sometimes transmit thoughts over great distances. And I know that people who have never met can in detail share the same "past life experiences" (Ask a guru about that one!). I know that people can travel "out of body". So there's a lot of things known to me to think about that are related to the physical and the non-physical characteristics of this wonderful world.

    OK, so down to the nitty gritty on this evolution vs. creation thing. What can I hang my hat on?
    Was this place created? Yes, it's here.
    Did He say why? Yes.
    Do we have records of Him saying this world was spun up and brought on line at a certain date? Nope.
    Did He say life forms can or cannot change really slowly? Nope.
    Are our known records (written, fossil and geological) complete enough and understood well enough to give us a solid history of the past? Nope.

    Theories...
    OK, be warned you asked for it. And I know this if not the above is probably going to offend someone. If anyone is offended please understand that offense is not my intent. This is what I think I know and expect no one else to have faith in what I know to be true.
    If our creator put the four basic dimensions in place is He outside of them? And if He is outside of those four dimensions then from His perspective isn't creation presently underway? Oh, uh, what if creation never stopped because after all He is actively involved "here and now"? He's answering prayers so yeah, He's here making things happen. Ah ha, creation is ongoing.
    Getting the impression that I understand evolution "science" and young Earth "creationism" as practiced and taught to perforce be deceit, self and otherwise? I think that is unavoidable, people being people.
    Thinking maybe I suspect both are red herrings? Well, besides the fact that I already said so.
    OK, that's enough. I gotta answer the growing email pile and prep the grill (sirloins).
     

    Route 45

    Grandmaster
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    93   0   0
    Dec 5, 2015
    15,210
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    Indy
    "Grand theory", huh?
    I have many thoughts on the matter due to having realized that the young Earth and Darwinian evolution theories are not tenable. I've thought about it off and on over the years. I thought about why would either theory be defended much less held so close to a persons heart. What I've come up with is people develop emotional attachment to ideas just like they do anything else. What I do know is what has been demonstrated to me. I know that Christ answers prayers. I know He is involved with people and this world on a personal level. I know that people who are deceased sometimes are involved here after they die (Mom and Grandad proved that). I know that people sometimes know things before they happen or when they happen far away, especially to people they love. I know people many miles away can share the same dream at the same time, sound asleep. I know that with practice people can sometimes transmit thoughts over great distances. And I know that people who have never met can in detail share the same "past life experiences" (Ask a guru about that one!). I know that people can travel "out of body". So there's a lot of things known to me to think about that are related to the physical and the non-physical characteristics of this wonderful world.

    OK, so down to the nitty gritty on this evolution vs. creation thing. What can I hang my hat on?
    Was this place created? Yes, it's here.
    Did He say why? Yes.
    Do we have records of Him saying this world was spun up and brought on line at a certain date? Nope.
    Did He say life forms can or cannot change really slowly? Nope.
    Are our known records (written, fossil and geological) complete enough and understood well enough to give us a solid history of the past? Nope.

    Theories...
    OK, be warned you asked for it. And I know this if not the above is probably going to offend someone. If anyone is offended please understand that offense is not my intent. This is what I think I know and expect no one else to have faith in what I know to be true.
    If our creator put the four basic dimensions in place is He outside of them? And if He is outside of those four dimensions then from His perspective isn't creation presently underway? Oh, uh, what if creation never stopped because after all He is actively involved "here and now"? He's answering prayers so yeah, He's here making things happen. Ah ha, creation is ongoing.
    Getting the impression that I understand evolution "science" and young Earth "creationism" as practiced and taught to perforce be deceit, self and otherwise? I think that is unavoidable, people being people.
    Thinking maybe I suspect both are red herrings? Well, besides the fact that I already said so.
    OK, that's enough. I gotta answer the growing email pile and prep the grill (sirloins).

    :):
     

    alabasterjar

    Sharpshooter
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    Apr 13, 2013
    613
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    Steuben County
    Out of curiosity, how do you process the archaeological findings and DNA sequencing data?
    Not sure I follow the question. Since Darwin, archeology discoveries have significantly weakened evolutionary theory. DNA sequencing is an incredible science that has extraordinarily expanded our understanding of genetics and biological history, but I'm not aware of any iron clad discoveries that have proven our ancestry originated from pond scum.
     

    nonobaddog

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    0   0   0
    Mar 10, 2015
    11,794
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    Tropical Minnesota
    Not sure I follow the question. Since Darwin, archeology discoveries have significantly weakened evolutionary theory. DNA sequencing is an incredible science that has extraordinarily expanded our understanding of genetics and biological history, but I'm not aware of any iron clad discoveries that have proven our ancestry originated from pond scum.

    At least you are processing the information and not just ignoring it. That is a good thing and then whatever conclusions we reach are informed conclusions.
     

    alabasterjar

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    At least you are processing the information and not just ignoring it. That is a good thing and then whatever conclusions we reach are informed conclusions.
    This is one of the areas that I think trips up the discussion quite often. Differing worldview may look at the same information and draw different conclusions because of where they are starting from. I'm more than willing to look at all evidence, but the conclusions I draw from it may differ from your conclusions. Where we get into trouble is when one side (or both) refuse to be open to new information, or more critical,, opposing information. I'm am by no means an expert on the topics discussed here, but natural sciences is my background and I am infinitely curious, so I read and watch people much smarter than me discuss these topics. YouTube can be a time-wasting wormhole, but it can also be incredibly informative!
     

    Jludo

    Master
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    Feb 14, 2013
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    Do you really think so???

    Yes and the bible was pounded into my head since I was a baby.

    If I had been born in Indonesia I'd be having the same arguments with Muslims who're just as convinced.

    Imagine what a mess the religious discussions would be if we had representatives of all the religions here. would anyone lose a bit of faith seeing so many adherents to incompatible beliefs exhibiting the same conviction?
     

    NKBJ

    at the ark
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    That's why I try to steer clear of religions (people make a real mess of them) and stick with the reality of Christianity.
     

    Jludo

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    That's why I try to steer clear of religions (people make a real mess of them) and stick with the reality of Christianity.

    Are you willing to buy into the thought experiment, what if you had been born into rural Pakistan? You believe you still would have ended up a devout adherent to the real christianity?

    Or worse yet, had you been born in america around 1200 ad?
     

    NKBJ

    at the ark
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    It's the reality of Christianity. If you haven't gotten that yet, well OK you haven't. And I couldn't accept the label of devout as I'm not devoted to a religion.

    For your thought experiment...
    If I had never been exposed to Christ while sucking air then I wouldn't know until, inevitably, being shown.
     

    DoggyDaddy

    Grandmaster
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    73   0   1
    Aug 18, 2011
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    It's the reality of Christianity. If you haven't gotten that yet, well OK you haven't. And I couldn't accept the label of devout as I'm not devoted to a religion.

    For your thought experiment...
    If I had never been exposed to Christ while sucking air then I wouldn't know until, inevitably, being shown.
    What if you were born, say in 2000 BC?
     

    Route 45

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    For your thought experiment...
    If I had never been exposed to Christ while sucking air then I wouldn't know until, inevitably, being shown.

    So you are, in effect, condemning those who you "share" Christ with to eternal damnation if they find your story implausible, yet their eternal life would have been fine if they had never heard of the dude.

    Thanks for your help. :):
     

    NKBJ

    at the ark
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    So you are, in effect, condemning those who you "share" Christ with to eternal damnation if they find your story implausible, yet their eternal life would have been fine if they had never heard of the dude.

    Thanks for your help. :):

    No.
    You get to experience the reality of Christ.
    What you do with it when it happens is up to you.

    When? If you were Ug the cave man and had never known anything about God except some guy screaming and prancing around the fire with antlers tied to his head... you are still going to meet your maker. What Christianity is about is that He had to let you know He has your back. At some point you say yes or no. You get to take your time.
     

    alabasterjar

    Sharpshooter
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    3   0   0
    Apr 13, 2013
    613
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    Steuben County
    "Grand theory", huh?
    I have many thoughts on the matter due to having realized that the young Earth and Darwinian evolution theories are not tenable. I've thought about it off and on over the years. I thought about why would either theory be defended much less held so close to a persons heart. What I've come up with is people develop emotional attachment to ideas just like they do anything else. What I do know is what has been demonstrated to me. I know that Christ answers prayers. I know He is involved with people and this world on a personal level. I know that people who are deceased sometimes are involved here after they die (Mom and Grandad proved that). I know that people sometimes know things before they happen or when they happen far away, especially to people they love. I know people many miles away can share the same dream at the same time, sound asleep. I know that with practice people can sometimes transmit thoughts over great distances. And I know that people who have never met can in detail share the same "past life experiences" (Ask a guru about that one!). I know that people can travel "out of body". So there's a lot of things known to me to think about that are related to the physical and the non-physical characteristics of this wonderful world.

    OK, so down to the nitty gritty on this evolution vs. creation thing. What can I hang my hat on?
    Was this place created? Yes, it's here.
    Did He say why? Yes.
    Do we have records of Him saying this world was spun up and brought on line at a certain date? Nope.
    Did He say life forms can or cannot change really slowly? Nope.
    Are our known records (written, fossil and geological) complete enough and understood well enough to give us a solid history of the past? Nope.

    Theories...
    OK, be warned you asked for it. And I know this if not the above is probably going to offend someone. If anyone is offended please understand that offense is not my intent. This is what I think I know and expect no one else to have faith in what I know to be true.
    If our creator put the four basic dimensions in place is He outside of them? And if He is outside of those four dimensions then from His perspective isn't creation presently underway? Oh, uh, what if creation never stopped because after all He is actively involved "here and now"? He's answering prayers so yeah, He's here making things happen. Ah ha, creation is ongoing.
    Getting the impression that I understand evolution "science" and young Earth "creationism" as practiced and taught to perforce be deceit, self and otherwise? I think that is unavoidable, people being people.
    Thinking maybe I suspect both are red herrings? Well, besides the fact that I already said so.
    OK, that's enough. I gotta answer the growing email pile and prep the grill (sirloins).
    I like this post. While I don't necessarily agree with you on all points, it shows that you are actually trying to grapple with the topic. The OP was about a discussion about the current status of Darwinian Evolution and if it stands up to the scrutiny of what we now know about DNA and archaeology and natural selection. Even Richard Dawkins, when pressed during a debate, capitulated that when factoring in the best case time frame for life (as we know it) to evolve was impossible - he ultimately came up with a possible solution: aliens. Or, wait for it, intelligent design. I'll have to see if I can identify that debate and post it here, because it was pretty spectacular that the poster child for Darwinian Evolution could come up with nothing better.
     
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