The [Current Year] General Political/Salma Hayek discussion thread, part 4!!!

[jamil]

LARPing originates in the 70s.

"Woke" originates from the 60s to 70s.


I use LARPing as a jab at the "battle-ready" mindset of people itching for a civil war they'll probably never get.

"Woke" has morphed over the years. That's pretty much how I use LARPing.

But, the ministry of prescribed aged behavior has determined that you may use those words. I'll have to consult Minister Alpo's list of age appropriate words for people between 50-60. Gosh, I hope I'm not that stodgy up when I'm that old. Hey.

Oh. Hey. Maybe that's what it means to be "woke" when you're pushing 70. Or, maybe he's just LARPing old age and he's really 12.

 

[printcraft]

...

Since it has come up, I guess I'll clarify the origins of the French "coup d'etat." It absolutely was a "illegal", usually with some force or threat of force, undoing of the ruling government. Along the lines of generals or high level ministers deciding they didn't like the King and deposing them. "Illegal" in the sense that the then-current ruler would have people arrested if he caught wind of such a coup.

An impeachment is a fundamentally legal exercise - at least in the US. There are defined boundaries and processes. It cannot be a coup. Even hyperbolicly.

If we accept the "its just an exaggeration" then all sorts of things become ok, that become more absurd.

I would be grateful to Pelosi if the impeachment committee never recommends articles of impeachment. It makes sense from her perspective to draw this timeline out until maybe it goes away. My sense is that she actually doesn't want to do this, but knows that if she doesn't she risks a civil war/revolution/coup/battle royale within her own party.

Oh well, I'm glad THAT attempt is not going on in any way, shape or fashion...

 

[Brad69]

Since I support Warren I would like to impose a skateboard tax.

 

[jamil]

Since I support Warren I would like to impose a skateboard tax.

Rather than just a skateboard tax, maybe it should be a "wheeled personal vehicle" tax. That way, you get the inline skaters too. And you can charge it by wheel.

 

[Birds Away]

Rather than just a skateboard tax, maybe it should be a "wheeled personal vehicle" tax. That way, you get the inline skaters too. And you can charge it by wheel.

You seem to have a knack for this.

 

[jamil]

Couple things as I get caught up.

Apparently Nickleback (or a different copyright holder) took down whatever Trump retweeted. That's kinda funny.

Since it has come up, I guess I'll clarify the origins of the French "coup d'etat." It absolutely was a "illegal", usually with some force or threat of force, undoing of the ruling government. Along the lines of generals or high level ministers deciding they didn't like the King and deposing them. "Illegal" in the sense that the then-current ruler would have people arrested if he caught wind of such a coup.

An impeachment is a fundamentally legal exercise - at least in the US. There are defined boundaries and processes. It cannot be a coup. Even hyperbolicly.

If we accept the "its just an exaggeration" then all sorts of things become ok, that become more absurd.

I would be grateful to Pelosi if the impeachment committee never recommends articles of impeachment. It makes sense from her perspective to draw this timeline out until maybe it goes away. My sense is that she actually doesn't want to do this, but knows that if she doesn't she risks a civil war/revolution/coup/battle royale within her own party.

Impeachment is not a coup. Exploiting a legal means of removing a president from office because you have the numbers is technically legal, but achieves the same goal as a coup. But you know. **** it. Because we're a nation of people. Because hate the game not the playa. It's okay when my side does it, but it's a coup when your side does.

 

[KG1]

Since I support Warren I would like to impose a skateboard tax.

Howbout a mandatory skateboard buyback?

 

[jamil]

You seem to have a knack for this.

What can I say? I am experienced at being taxed.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Howbout a mandatory skateboard buyback?

I had a tragic ... boating accident... with my skateboard.

Uh.

Don't ask questions.

 

[jamil]

I never owned a skateboard. I tried inline skating maybe 20 years ago. It was okay. But then my knees started bothering me and I gave it up.

 

[T.Lex]

Impeachment is not a coup. Exploiting a legal means of removing a president from office because you have the numbers is technically legal, but achieves the same goal as a coup.

So does an election.

The Deep State thing is where the right word issue gets muddy.

I mean, if there really is a cabal of people with some measure of authority working to oust the POTUS extrajudicially... then yeah, that's a more appropriate use of the word. But, I'm not on board with that angle right now.

Pelosi and Schiff are political opportunists and this call provided them the opportunity, without working too hard.

(I still think that the more revelatory investigation would involve Trump's business dealings as POTUS, but that doesn't look like it will happen during his presidency.)

 

[nonobaddog]

I think it's folly to have faith in any government that is "huge." Socialism, Capitalism, Fascism... Respectively: Mass Starvation, Slavery, Genocide...

With over 22 Million employees at all levels, our government is already huge. With socialism (or dumocrap control) it would get bigger and worse than ever.

 

[jamil]

So does an election.

The Deep State thing is where the right word issue gets muddy.

I mean, if there really is a cabal of people with some measure of authority working to oust the POTUS extrajudicially... then yeah, that's a more appropriate use of the word. But, I'm not on board with that angle right now.

Pelosi and Schiff are political opportunists and this call provided them the opportunity, without working too hard.

(I still think that the more revelatory investigation would involve Trump's business dealings as POTUS, but that doesn't look like it will happen during his presidency.)

Impeachment hasn't been weaponized much because everyone knows it works both ways. But sometimes when you get unscrupulous people in these positions, they'll exploit every tool, even one which their opposition can use against them if they're desperate enough. And these people think their backs are against the wall, that they have to get this president out of office before RBG finally croaks. They're behaving like this is existential. So, though I'm not quite on the "coup" bandwagon, it does have a lot of aspects of it. It's similar. But not a coup.

And I think I agree on the point about voting. It can be weaponized too when you have a relatively few number of people controlling information. People are quite hackable anyway. You control the information, then you also control belief. And politics is a lot about belief.

 

[Ingomike]

The Deep State thing is where the right word issue gets muddy.

I mean, if there really is a cabal of people with some measure of authority working to oust the POTUS extrajudicially... then yeah, that's a more appropriate use of the word. But, I'm not on board with that angle right now.

What do you need to see believe that a deep state exists? Presumably more than what has been reported on activities counter to this President and support his opponents by the State Dept., CIA, DOD, and FBI.

The whole whistleblower saga is CIA colluding with the democrats on the house intelligence committee and that is just the most recent...

 

[KG1]

One interesting thought is, if there is no formal vote to begin impeachment proceedings does anyone have to cooperate with their witch hunt? That may play out between the house and executive branches in the courts. Does the constitutional authority to impeach begin with just a statement of one member?

Well there are those that are trying to make that argument. In addition to that House Republicans are objecting to the way this is currently being handled.

I said I didn't know if Pelosi was breaking with precedence but apparently there was a House vote prior to the Nixon and Clinton impeachment inquiries and she appears to be breaking with long standing House rules that inquiries were conducted within the Judiciary committee but it seems like the Judiciary committee already has their hands full conducting another investigation into whether or not they can come up with an impeachment case on obstruction charges in the Mueller probe which I think might fall by the wayside now. The Democrats appear to be putting their eggs in this new basket.

Some are pointing out that what Pelosi and the Democrats are doing now is contradictory to the process they are currently undertaking in the Mueller obstruction investigation and they are fast tracking this buggy right down the impeachment road.

House Republicans are complaining about the expedited pace on which this "inquiry" is being pushed through by Pelosi and the Democrats objecting to the fact that they are not allowed to participate in the process lending further credence to the argument that this is just another one sided political undertaking of many to find a way to impeach the President.

 

[jamil]

I think it's folly to have faith in any government that is "huge." Socialism, Capitalism, Fascism... Respectively: Mass Starvation, Slavery, Genocide...

Capitalism and socialism are primarily economic structures. Capitalism is the only of the two that could function without a government. I'm not saying it could function well. I kinda think it could easily devolve into corporate cronyism gone wild, where corporate boards form a defacto government. You know. People like to control people and all. But, the point is, markets can work without government.

Socialism requires enforced rules, especially as you scale it. And the more it's scaled up, the more government must scale up. All I'm saying is that you don't NEED a big government under a capitalist system.

 

[nonobaddog]

Part of our government bloat is due to the socialism in place now. Yes, there are socialism pieces in our government.
Other bloat comes from...
Non-constitutional overreach (not saying unconstitutional per se)
Redundancy
Inefficiency
etc.

Socialism would expand all of these bad aspects of government. Just another reason not to go down in that sewer.

 

[T.Lex]

What do you need to see believe that a deep state exists? Presumably more than what has been reported on activities counter to this President and support his opponents by the State Dept., CIA, DOD, and FBI.

My problem with the Deep State Conspiracy is that I have some practical experience "inside" government. Yeah, probably not "deep" enough. (TWSS)

But still, my takeaway is that the Deep State Conspiracy requires a belief in a group of people who are (1)effective in manipulating government (2) keeping quiet about it (3) over a long period of time.

My experience is that those are 3 different buckets of people with little overlap between any 2 buckets and no overlap with all 3.

Many people in government - especially elected positions - eventually tend to guard their little fiefdoms. That I understand. But the Deep State Conspiracy requires more than that.

So let's turn it around - who, either by name or role, is part of the Deep State?

 

[jamil]

Personal foul, T.Lex. Making a self-referenced-TWSS. Half the distance the goal line. 3rd down.


A proper TWSS must refer to someone else's statement. Applying TWSS to self-referenced statements invalidate the TWSS. A personal foul of 15 yards is assessed for violations.

 

[T.Lex]

Does asking foreign countries, who may or may not conform to the rule of law very much, to conduct investigations on US politicians really make sense? I mean, doesn't that perhaps invite an investigation of the politician doing the asking?

Whether you think Trump is dirty or not, some of these countries might actually come up with something against him - whether real or not. That doesn't seem like the best result.

On another GenPol topic, going this hard after Biden seems... unnecessary. Maybe even a bit personal at this point. If Trump views Biden as a weak candidate, then sit on stuff and wait for him to get the nomination!