Turkey and the Kurds Hold the Key to Defeating the Islamic State

[Ark]

This is the big problem. We have to either support them or not. They should have given them a chunk of Iraq when we were rebuilding them. Of course that would have angered Turkey and Syria, so we didn't. We've just continued to use them with no intention of actually supporting them.

Agreed. There was a window after the invasion, before the new government was set up, where we probably could have broken up Iraq and established a Kurdish state at the barrel of a gun. But, that window closed, and there is clearly little political appetite outside of extremist circles to take responsibility for a new Israel that will be besieged on all sides.

 

[KG1]

The Kurds have never had very many friends, and that doesn't appear to have changed.

And the thing is IDK how much diplomatic sway we had to intervene with Turkey's offensive on behalf of the Kurds and convince them that it was a bad idea. I'm sure the Turks have never been to keen on the fact that we have had alliances with the Kurds and they might feel that we may not be acting in their, the Turks best interest.

So basically Erdogan informed Trump to not get involved. We're coming.

So it seems that Trump may have had no other option at the time short of joining the Kurds with military support against the Turks. That would have opened a whole 'nother can of worms as it were.

 

[T.Lex]

Yeah, I think it is fair to say that the presence of US troops was the main thing stalling Turkey's advance. We probably could've walked the middle of the road and not sent any additional materiel to the Kurds, but our troops would've been drawn into the conflict. Based on some first-person reports, our guys probably would've helped the Kurds defend themselves.

Trump appears to have been caught in an extraordinary dilemma: risk death/capture of US forces defending the Kurds, or sacrifice the Kurds. I don't care who is POTUS, that's a crappy decision.

Come to think of it, I wonder if the recent speculation about re-admission into the F-35 program was an effort to prevent this. "Hey, hold off on invading the Kurds and we'll consider letting you back into the cool kids' party."

Man, this sucks.

 

[JTScribe]

Here's the the thing that's been glossed over in all of this. The Syrian Kurds are PKK, a Communist terrorist group that runs drugs to fund their operations.

When the media refer to Kurds, most think of the Pershmerga, or Iraqi Kurds.

Additionally, the Free Syrian Army (the guys we armed and trained to fight Assad) have joined the fight on the side of the Turks. So we're faced with a situation where three allies, one by treaty and two by action, are engaged in combat against one another.

See here for more detail:

https://www.trtworld.com/middle-eas...-ypg-terrorist-group-that-need-refuting-30457

 

[BigRed]

Something Thomas Jefferson had to say about entangling alliances keeps running through my thoughts.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

A deal between Kurdish forces and Syrian forces, with involvement of Russia, appears to be in the works to help confront the Turkish invasion into northern Syria after the US abandoned the Kurdish forces in the region.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/...es-withdraw-further-syria-esper-says-n1065516

 

[Dead Duck]

Something Thomas Jefferson had to say about entangling alliances keeps running through my thoughts.

Condoms Prevent Minivans?

 

[T.Lex]

Speaking of condoms, Putin's ... seed... is all over this scenario.

 

[T.Lex]

https://www.axios.com/trump-erdogan...uff-fc761d8f-e33b-473b-8ece-d0b8b3a51f26.html

A bit more anonymous-source reporting on the history of the dynamic with Trump. Apparently, there have been efforts to treat Erdogan's desires to invade Kurdish areas as a bluff, and prevent him from invading by using a parade of horribles logic.

And it worked, right up to the time it didn't work.

At least we were talking to them. I can't really fault Trump's strategy here. We kept Turkey locked up while a pretty good status quo was established for the Kurds, with minimal dedication of USian troops. The downside with that strategy was that it was also a bluff, and Erdogan called ours. To continue the gambling analogy, we've either got to fold or double down.

Again, really tough decisions.

 

[Brad69]

JTScribe is spot on !

I have worked with the Turks that have fought the PKK for many years and it’s brutal fighting. Kurd doesn’t always represent the ones most Americans think of freedom fighters that want peace. The PKK are some bad actors IMO, I wouldn’t trust Turks at all IME they are secretive and I always had a uneasy feeling around them.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

I totally agree with getting out, and letting people handle themselves (with some exceptions regarding allies)... but this one is going to look bad due to the timing. And now with Russia swooping in to take our place... feels like we lost something here.

 

[Jludo]

I totally agree with getting out, and letting people handle themselves (with some exceptions regarding allies)... but this one is going to look bad due to the timing. And now with Russia swooping in to take our place... feels like we lost something here.

Im generally for getting out of places too, the problem is if I were to prioritize who to ditch first the Kurds would not be high up on that list.

 

[Leadeye]

Usually in a case like this not all the cards are on the table regardless of what big media says. I'll wait and see before forming an opinion.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Pelosi Preps 'Joint Resolution' With Graham to 'Overturn' Trump's Syria Decision 'Immediately'


.... Can congress even do that? Decide where American troops are, sans President?

 

[Kutnupe14]

Pelosi Preps 'Joint Resolution' With Graham to 'Overturn' Trump's Syria Decision 'Immediately'


.... Can congress even do that? Decide where American troops are, sans President?

Congress can do anything if they have the votes. For instance declaring war doesn't need the president. They can do it unilaterally, even if the president opposes it; so a minor protective operation? Easy peasy.

 

[T.Lex]

Pelosi Preps 'Joint Resolution' With Graham to 'Overturn' Trump's Syria Decision 'Immediately'


.... Can congress even do that? Decide where American troops are, sans President?

They can play with the money. Basically de-fund certain functions, unless POTUS does certain other things.

That's a terrible gambit, though, from the Dem perspective. The Republicans in the Senate would block it so there's no chance it'll pass. But, if the House votes on it, then the non-incumbent congressional candidates can point to all the representatives that "voted to defund the military."

Foreign policy issues generally don't resonate in USian elections. This is a bad political hand to play by the Dems. They're better off leaving the narrative that Trump abandons allies across the globe. General statements like that are more likely to have some influence.

A re-iteration of "look how bad he is."

 

[BugI02]

I totally agree with getting out, and letting people handle themselves (with some exceptions regarding allies)... but this one is going to look bad due to the timing. And now with Russia swooping in to take our place... feels like we lost something here.

Fear of missing out ... on sketchy conflicts with ambiguous ROE and shifty casts of characters that do nothing for the US except waste more blood and treasure? The PKK have arguably been launching attacks against the Turks from behind our protective skirts. If they don't want to get shot, they probably shouldn't give Erdogan bullets for his gun. Same mistake Lashkar-e-Taiba et al are making

 

[Ark]

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/a...of-turkeys-military-attacking-kurd-civilians/

ABC was so desperate to push the narrative that Trump was enabling the "slaughter" of Kurdish civilians that they stole Youtube footage of the Knob Creek machine gun shoot, modified it to bloom out the audience on the firing line, and passed it off as footage of the Turkish military "massacring" civilians. ABC has not published a retraction, but has quietly deleted the video and is trying to scrub it from the internet.

 

[Dead Duck]

So Pelosi wants the U.S to declare war on a NATO nation?

 

[KG1]

So Pelosi wants the U.S to declare war on a NATO nation?

**** yeah. Let’s go to war with Turkey.

Go play golf Trump. Nanny can run the campaign.