Elderly: Asset or Liability?

[Creedmoor]

Also personal attacks in a discussion... tisk tisk. Win your argument another way.

You must be new to INGO.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Save and invest. Live way below your means. Be charitable when you can. And when it is your time to go, have the dignity to not be a drain on others, or be able to use the money you saved or invested to secure your own health. Work to live, I think is the saying.

Also personal attacks in a discussion... tisk tisk. Win your argument another way.

Wasn't intended as a personal attack. Just an observation and a ponderance.

Saving and investing and living below your means is sound advice, but catastrophic circumstances can happen to anyone. Personally I don't believe a person's worth is determined by their balance sheet.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

Save and invest. Live way below your means. Be charitable when you can. And when it is your time to go, have the dignity to not be a drain on others, or be able to use the money you saved or invested to secure your own health. Work to live, I think is the saying.

Also personal attacks in a discussion... tisk tisk. Win your argument another way.

I pretty much agree with that, but I know you realize there is always the possibility that we can live by those words and still find ourselves in a situation where we aren't able to care for ourselves any more, but are still alive. What then?

 

[Creedmoor]

Saving and investing and living below your means is sound advice, but catastrophic circumstances can happen to anyone. Personally I don't believe a person's worth is determined by their balance sheet.

I don't know about a persons worth but, I have an issue with those that we have to subsidize or cover everything with making bad choices in life along with those that have never been productive in life. Family and churches used to be the supporters to most.
I live in a town full of it.

 

[blain]

But it seems like modern culture is the antithesis of Spartan society.
How are the masses to be brought around to logical thinking?

 

[BE Mike]

Besides the financial side, which can be because of poor life choices or things that occur outside of a person's ability to control them, should young people look to the elderly for wisdom?

 

[sadclownwp]

I pretty much agree with that, but I know you realize there is always the possibility that we can live by those words and still find ourselves in a situation where we aren't able to care for ourselves any more, but are still alive. What then?

Are we talking still able to physically do something, or we talking vegetable? Are they not even able to babysit? Cause if someone is next to a vegetable, is it really living?

 

[blain]

Besides the financial side, which can be because of poor life choices or things that occur outside of a person's ability to control them, should young people look to the elderly for wisdom?

No, they should acquire their own wisdom by trial & error. They have no time for the oldsters.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Also personal attacks in a discussion... tisk tisk. Win your argument another way.

personal attack? Hardly.

You need thicker skin, my friend.

 

[sadclownwp]

Besides the financial side, which can be because of poor life choices or things that occur outside of a person's ability to control them, should young people look to the elderly for wisdom?

Are all elderly people wise? And what is the value of the wisdom. A young woman looking to become an architect might value the wisdom of an elderly architect. However does that wisdom transfer over with modern building codes? Is that wisdom just as valuable to a young man looking to improve his cooking skills? The elderly as teachers, this could be valuable, but unfortunately some even lose that wisdom with time. And then you have the negatives of the elderly as teachers, for if they are teachers, where do the new teachers go to. Was man even meant to live as long as people are living? Was the average life span even supposed to get as high as it has?
And if the elderly person didn't live the healthiest life, causing adverse affects late in life, why should the young be responsible for their care? Could walking 4 miles a day prolonged their health? If they chose not to do things that prolong their health, why should others pay for their personal choices?

 

[Jaybird1980]

Starting to sound a lot like the Canadian euthanasia threads.

It's ok to try and bleed them dry their whole life, but now they're old and worthless. Sounds like the new age thinking.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

Are we talking still able to physically do something, or we talking vegetable? Are they not even able to babysit? Cause if someone is next to a vegetable, is it really living?

OK, let's assume that a person is in the category of "alive, but it's debatable whether it's really living", but with no assets and nobody willing to step up to take them in.

Should we:
1. Make every effort to give them the best life possible.
2. Make them comfortable, with reasonable care, until they die on their own.
3. Euthanize them humanely.
4. Euthanize them cost-effectively.
5. Just ignore them until the neighbors report a vile odor emanating from their home.

 

[AndreusMaximus]

I'm just gonna take this opportunity to say that I'm glad my parents raised me a Christian.

Without a God who makes us and gives us an immortal soul with intrinsic value, a logical outlook on life leads one to a very dark and bleak place.

 

[sadclownwp]

OK, let's assume that a person is in the category of "alive, but it's debatable whether it's really living", but with no assets and nobody willing to step up to take them in.

Should we:
1. Make every effort to give them the best life possible.
2. Make them comfortable, with reasonable care, until they die on their own.
3. Euthanize them humanely.
4. Euthanize them cost-effectively.
5. Just ignore them until the neighbors report a vile odor emanating from their home.

The answer is 5 by default. This is why it is important to be active in your little community and build up emotional equity with those in your community/church/family. Make it so people love you enough that even if you have nothing, they still value you enough to shoulder your burden.
But no one should be forced to shoulder the burden of anyone else. That is not moral. Chosing to is a completely different story.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

Besides the financial side, which can be because of poor life choices or things that occur outside of a person's ability to control them, should young people look to the elderly for wisdom?

I remember back in the day when I used to listen to G. Gordon Liddy's radio program. He said one day that one of the failings of youth is that young people get most of their advice for life choices from other young people and not from older, more experienced people.

At the time, I figured that he was right, but (ironically) as I've gotten older, I'm more of the belief that valuable wisdom is where you find it. You just need to learn to recognize it when it's there.

 

[tcecil88]

Are we talking still able to physically do something, or we talking vegetable? Are they not even able to babysit? Cause if someone is next to a vegetable, is it really living?

So what do you propose we do with people who are in a vegetative state? While I agree that is not living, who decides that person's fate?
My MIL was confined to a wheelchair from the time she was 25, she was unable to work and was on disability. Should we have just let her starve and die?
IMO, your statements are bordering on advocating that we just let the elderly or infirm die off and not take care of them.

 

[manifest destiny]

New born babies lack wisdom, offer no value, contribute nothing and have a bank account of zero. Maybe we should toss them aside too.

 

[sadclownwp]

So what do you propose we do with people who are in a vegetative state? While I agree that is not living, who decides that person's fate?
My MIL was confined to a wheelchair from the time she was 25, she was unable to work and was on disability. Should we have just let her starve and die?
IMO, your statements are bordering on advocating that we just let the elderly or infirm die off and not take care of them.

First and foremost, I am saying that no one should be forced to care for someone else in any way. To think other wise would be to advocate for slavery.

If you love your MIL enough to willingly shoulder her burden, then that is great and you should do that. But no one should be forced to care for her in any way.

I'm not bordering on saying that, I'm saying that if no one is willing to shoulder the burden, then no one should be forced to shoulder the burden of caring for them. I think that those who want to voluntarily give of themselves to take on the burden of the elderly or infirm should 100% do that, and for as long as they wish to. However, no one should be forced to do any such thing.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

The answer is 5 by default. This is why it is important to be active in your little community and build up emotional equity with those in your community/church/family. Make it so people love you enough that even if you have nothing, they still value you enough to shoulder your burden.
But no one should be forced to shoulder the burden of anyone else. That is not moral. Chosing to is a completely different story.

In the novel "A Man Called Horse", during the time that the main character is living with the Indians, but with no social standing with them, he sees an old woman die in the cold because she was old and had no family. The other Indians weren't totally unsympathetic, they just considered it an unfortunate, but unavoidable thing in their world. Letting her die was their way, and for them it was moral.

 

[Ingomike]

OK, let's assume that a person is in the category of "alive, but it's debatable whether it's really living", but with no assets and nobody willing to step up to take them in.

The fact is that big numbers have no children and no one to take care of them.