Elderly: Asset or Liability?

[Ingomike]

Should we:
1. Make every effort to give them the best life possible.
2. Make them comfortable, with reasonable care, until they die on their own.
3. Euthanize them humanely.
4. Euthanize them cost-effectively.
5. Just ignore them until the neighbors report a vile odor emanating from the street.

FIFY

 

[Ingomike]

New born babies lack wisdom, offer no value, contribute nothing and have a bank account of zero. Maybe we should toss them aside too.

Sadly, the left does this already…

 

[BE Mike]

First and foremost, I am saying that no one should be forced to care for someone else in any way. To think other wise would be to advocate for slavery.

If you love your MIL enough to willingly shoulder her burden, then that is great and you should do that. But no one should be forced to care for her in any way.

I'm not bordering on saying that, I'm saying that if no one is willing to shoulder the burden, then no one should be forced to shoulder the burden of caring for them. I think that those who want to voluntarily give of themselves to take on the burden of the elderly or infirm should 100% do that, and for as long as they wish to. However, no one should be forced to do any such thing.

Although this expands much farther out than the elderly, I do think that our society has a moral responsibility to care for those who cannot care for themselves. Not everyone is born with the same innate intelligence or physical abilities. If someone is injured beyond their ability to care for themselves and others, there should be a safety net. Having said that, those who make their own beds should be required to sleep in them. I hope that those who take an extreme stance never have to suffer an extreme loss, not of their doing, and be left out in the cold.

 

[BE Mike]

Are all elderly people wise? And what is the value of the wisdom. A young woman looking to become an architect might value the wisdom of an elderly architect. However does that wisdom transfer over with modern building codes? Is that wisdom just as valuable to a young man looking to improve his cooking skills? The elderly as teachers, this could be valuable, but unfortunately some even lose that wisdom with time. And then you have the negatives of the elderly as teachers, for if they are teachers, where do the new teachers go to. Was man even meant to live as long as people are living? Was the average life span even supposed to get as high as it has?
And if the elderly person didn't live the healthiest life, causing adverse affects late in life, why should the young be responsible for their care? Could walking 4 miles a day prolonged their health? If they chose not to do things that prolong their health, why should others pay for their personal choices?

Clearly I was speaking in generalities. If you believe that there is no value in wisdom, then you can't comprehend the value of a society building upon the mistakes and successes of the past.

 

[manifest destiny]

My inner hardliner wants to say 'sink or swim'. My humanity requires I help if I can. It's a weird dichotomy for sure. As to caring for the elderly, it's mostly baked in to the life-cake. The programs used for those in need (SS, Disb., Medicaire/aid) require compulsory participation by the able. Generosity and compassion are voluntary.

 

[blain]

I hope that those who take an extreme stance never have to suffer an extreme loss, not of their doing, and be left out in the cold.

Surely those that take extreme positions aren't doing so for the betterment of themselves or the sole individual.
The stance is probably of pure intention, to support the Fatherland society.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

The fact is that big numbers have no children and no one to take care of them.

My MIL was stricken with illness in 1984, when she was 46, and was left a quadriplegic. My wife and I had been married less than two years at that point. My wife and FIL took good care of her, with my wife taking on a bigger role as her dad aged, and she took over 24/7 when he died in 2016. MIL decided to go into a nursing home after my wife had a heart attack in 2018, and she (MIL) died of COVID in January 2021 after refusing the vaccine (more because she was ready to go than because of lack of trust or political affiliation).

I guess it could be said that MIL's family failed that last year when she was on Medicaid after her money ran out, or it could be said that they saved Medicaid those other 34 years when they took care of her at home. I wouldn't argue either way.

 

[Expat]

This is the opinion of the generation that helped elect Brandon? **** ‘em. When I want their opinion I will beat it out them.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

In the novel "A Man Called Horse", during the time that the main character is living with the Indians, but with no social standing with them, he sees an old woman die in the cold because she was old and had no family. The other Indians weren't totally unsympathetic, they just considered it an unfortunate, but unavoidable thing in their world. Letting her die was their way, and for them it was moral.

I can't recall the book any longer, but it was a true account of various tribal peoples and their treatment of the elderly (among many other topics, but that's the relevant one here). Essentially, the old were their books/internet/data storage facility. For obvious reasons, women tended to live to be elderly more often than men, so the "wise woman" concept began as a self-preservation method. If the 'wise woman' taught all she knew, she was no longer valuable and could be tossed aside when the tribe faced difficult choices due to resource shortages. The specific example I recall was what foods were unpleasant, but non-toxic, that survived after a volcanic eruption or hurricane or the like stripped the normal food resources.

Modern western society doesn't have to make choices to that level. We are, practically, approaching limitless resources for the feeding and housing of our people. However, the 'wise woman' is now written down and information is not horded any longer. So what value do we assign old people? So many in this thread seem to focus on economic value or some nebulous 'wisdom' value.

But what about simply the fact human life has value?

What about the fact that you're free to fail without fatal consequences? How would our economy, technology, society look if we still had debtor's prisons and zero social safety net? Lolberts and anarchists forget that they benefit from the mere existence of this even if they don't personally ever have to use it.

 

[sadclownwp]

This is the opinion of the generation that helped elect Brandon? **** ‘em. When I want their opinion I will beat it out them.

The sad fact is that they outnumber you. Beat one of them and give them more ammo to prove them right in their minds. By beating one, you solidify the opinions of 10,000 of them while your numbers start to dwindle.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

This is the opinion of the generation that helped elect Brandon? **** ‘em. When I want their opinion I will beat it out them.

Betcha won't.

 

[Sigblitz]

I pay into an annuity. I won't be touching your social security.

 

[Creedmoor]

I pay into an annuity. I won't be touching your social security.

Good for you,
I have one of those Horrible Union Pensions, I took it at 62 because I never was going to work in that industry again. I'm 65 tomorrow. I've double dipped the last few years.
I will take my SS at 66 and 8 months. I will most likely never use my SS or my 401 money.
I wish we had an annuity when I started like the The Iron-workers do. .

 

[bwframe]

A lot of the "problem" with the elderly is that we as a society have conditioned them to be looking for others to care for them.

Thinking in terms of "retirement," social security, medicare, etc, doesn't help to keep a healthy mindset towards self care.

I don't know about you all, but I am surrounded by folks, in my sixty-something age range who are "just getting old." That common phrase, along with others like "just can't do it anymore," "not able to" and "I'm too old for that."

What if there were no safety nets? No financial programs to eliminate the need to continue to contribute to society? No doctors with magic pills to fix all ailments (while creating others?) Would folks approaching older age take a more proactive approach to their health to make their later years less physically and mentally crippling to their quality of life?

 

[Creedmoor]

A lot of the "problem" with the elderly is that we as a society have conditioned them to be looking for others to care for them.

Thinking in terms of "retirement," social security, medicare, etc, doesn't help to keep a healthy mindset towards self care.

I don't know about you all, but I am surrounded by folks, in my sixty-something age range who are "just getting old." That common phrase, along with others like "just can't do it anymore," "not able to" and "I'm too old for that."

What if there were no safety nets? No financial programs to eliminate the need to continue to contribute to society? No doctors with magic pills to fix all ailments (while creating others?) Would folks approaching older age take a more proactive approach to their health to make their later years less physically and mentally crippling to their quality of life?

We would be like we used to be, until the big crash and the forming of SS.

 

[Expat]

The sad fact is that they outnumber you. Beat one of them and give them more ammo to prove them right in their minds. By beating one, you solidify the opinions of 10,000 of them while your numbers start to dwindle.

Once again, I really don't care. I will be dead and gone likely sooner rather than later. If they want to turn this place into the utopia of leftist politics, they and their kids will be the one reaping that benefits, not me.

Betcha won't.

No, because once again, I have no desire to hear their opinion. My son is the typical millennial. He has always resented that he has had to work for a living. He really believed his mother that he was oh so special. He thinks it unfair that he works when there are billionaires that should have their money taken away and used to keep him up.

 

[BE Mike]

It looks like the general opinion is that the elderly are a liability. How about all the grandchildren who are being raised by the elderly? How about all the elderly who are providing free baby sitting or after school care?

 

[Expat]

I need to see an attorney about leaving my assets to my grandchildren instead.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

I don't know about you all, but I am surrounded by folks, in my sixty-something age range who are "just getting old." That common phrase, along with others like "just can't do it anymore," "not able to" and "I'm too old for that."

A long time ago, Toby Keith said "I'm not as good as I once was, but I'm as good, once, as I ever was"

I used to agree with that, but as I keep getting older, now I'm not so sure.

 

[WebSnyper]

It looks like the general opinion is that the elderly are a liability. How about all the grandchildren who are being raised by the elderly? How about all the elderly who are providing free baby sitting or after school care?

For me the "balance sheet" ebbs and flows. There are times when any given person is/can be a "liability" and there are times when they are an "asset". I'm far from a communist/socialist, and don't think SS should have been mandated. It doesn't help that the govt can't figure out if they want taxes and SS, etc to be welfare programs or forced retirement programs (but it's there and should be honored for those that paid in, as should pensions, etc). People should take care of and invest in themselves for sure.


That said, taking care of yourself means investing for your future and sometimes that investment is $ in a retirement plan, but part of that investment is also investing in your family, others, community, etc, and hopefully that investment pays off. I'm not counting on the latter aspect or making that my only plan by any means.