Did they just steal from Keltec again and it’s multi mag 9mm blow back carbine that’s been around forever
How is this stealing from keltec? It doesn't fold.
Did they just steal from Keltec again and it’s multi mag 9mm blow back carbine that’s been around forever
They already stole that one I was referring to the multi mag systemHow is this stealing from keltec? It doesn't fold.
The Keltec system used on the Sub 2k requires that the frame be swapped to change from Glock mags to another brand of mag.They already stole that one I was referring to the multi mag system
Sounds like you need one of these:I still can’t get around the mag well with the small 9mm mag. It just doesn’t look right to me. I’ve always had this problem with the AR9 or ARish pistol platforms they just don’t look right. To each his own.
To me it’s an ugly gun.
I am curious FS, what are the issues with blowback operated rifles like the ones that folks are talking about in this thread?Sounds like you need one of these:
As to this latest S&W offering...meh. Get back to me when they come out with something gas operated or at least delayed blowback and then maybe I'll be interested.
Not all blowback rifles have serious issues. A well-designed one can work reliably. But just the nature of the design requires balancing the recoil forces of the ammo with your spring and buffer. The action is not locked, and the combined force of the buffer spring, buffer inertia, and hammer spring must hold the bolt closed long enough for the bullet to leave the barrel, otherwise the action will open prematurely and you'll get ruptured cases or significant blowby into the face of the shooter. As you can imagine, balancing that action to a wide variety of different ammo can be difficult, and it also requires a heavier buffer and bolt assembly than a traditional AR-15, so all that reciprocating mass gets transferred to the shooter under recoil. In my experience, a straight blowback AR recoils similarly to a gas-operated .223 rifle, which kind of negates some of the purpose of shooting a pistol caliber in the first place.I am curious FS, what are the issues with blowback operated rifles like the ones that folks are talking about in this thread?
Here is a site with a lot of good info regarding blowback 9mm ARs:what are the issues with blowback operated rifles like the ones that folks are talking about in this thread?
I’m just not a fan of trying to adopt all kinds of different chamberings in a platform not originally designed for it. Personally I don’t find it appealing to use pistol rounds in an ARish platform. I would rather see a design purpose built for the job from the ground up and not adapted from something else. That’s not to say different cartridges shouldn’t be used in a platform but I like to keep the case length relatively similar. Gets back to just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should.Sounds like you need one of these:
CMMG Radially-delayed blowback 9mm on a standard lower with the "Endomag" conversions. Exact same feel, controls, and footprint of a .223 AR. It's also not straight-blowback, and because it uses a rotating bolt and carrier setup similar to a regular gas-operated AR instead of a solid bolt like the blowback designs, you get the out-of-battery protection that was designed into the AR platform from the beginning, which the blowback guns don't have.
My first 9mm AR was a PSA Glock-Mag straight-blowback job, and after it blew up a couple cases in my face, I got rid of it. The only issue I've had with the CMMG is having to replace an ejector spring about 1000 rounds in. The recoil impulse is softer, I can drop it on any lower, and the mags have fed flawlessly.
As to this latest S&W offering...meh. Get back to me when they come out with something gas operated or at least delayed blowback and then maybe I'll be interested.
I definitely agree in principal. What a 9mm AR gives me is the ability to practice on steel targets with a rifle that has almost identical ergonomics and similar recoil characteristics to my patrol rifle, and it can also be shot in pistol-caliber-only bays at my gun club where I can't use my 5.56 rifle. It's a training tool (and a really fun one)...for serious work, I'll take a 5.56 every time.I’m just not a fan of trying to adopt all kinds of different chamberings in a platform not originally designed for it. Personally I don’t find it appealing to use pistol rounds in an ARish platform. I would rather see a design purpose built for the job from the ground up and not adapted from something else. That’s not to say different cartridges shouldn’t be used in a platform but I like to keep the case length relatively similar. Gets back to just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should.
Looking forward to a range review.Picked up my Response tonight.
Ill weigh them tonight when I get home and check to see if the buffer has moving weights or is solidLooking forward to a range review.
How much do the bolt and buffer weigh? Is the buffer solid or does it have internal weights?
Enjoy the new rifle.
Thanks!Ill weigh them tonight when I get home and check to see if the buffer has moving weights or is solid
Buffer is solid, no loose weights shaking around. Due to the length is a little tricky to remove. Weights are in the picsThanks!
The one unusual thing I've noticed so far is the rear takedown pin isn't completely round like an AR. It has a flat spot on the bottom.Total of 24.3 ounces for the Response.
The Ruger PC Carbine is 23.7 ounces with a dead blow weight in the bolt.
The M&P FPC is 26.2 ounces.
22-24 ounces is what seems to work for an AR9.
I'm surprised that there are no moving weights in the buffer, but no judgements until I shoot one.
The buffer is 5 inches long which is an inch longer than many AR9 buffer and 1 3/4 inches longer than a standard AR-15 buffer.
I've read that both the upper and lower are proprietary so no swapping the entire upper or lower to another AR.
@Simon6101 - thanks for your investigative efforts!
I'm still trying to find time to get to the range when the weather is at least Sunny on my days off. Hopefully this Sunday or MondayTagged because I want to see Simon’s opinions.
I handled one of these at the shop. Two opinions 1) yuck it’s cheesy plastic and PCCs are stupid, carry a rifle and 2) this seems pretty cool, lightweight, takes different mags, trigger OK, bolt has a decent looking extractor. To be honest it peaked my interest as I like PCCs and enjoyed my AR9 before I sold it to a friend. I didn’t care for the plastic but I did like the weight.