I was thinking 3, like the number of licks it takes to get to the tootsie roll center of a tootsie pop.Yes, I'd agree.
It's at least 1 louder
I was thinking 3, like the number of licks it takes to get to the tootsie roll center of a tootsie pop.Yes, I'd agree.
It's at least 1 louder
Kinda funny smith wants to be Keltec when they grow up.
I'm sure the Walther is fine pistol, it certainly appeared to be well made from the one I handled. However, Walther made some questionable design choices that make it difficult for it to compete of which capacity is only one. The much bigger issue is the weight, it weighs nearly twice as much as its competitors. That doesn't make it a bad pistol, but it does make it hard for the WMP to compete.I have the Walther and consider it to be one of my favorite pistols. It’s reliable, extremely accurate, and ergonomically perfect for my hand shape. I will certainly give the new S&W a lustfull going over and there’s a really good chance I’ll buy one, but mostly because I’m having so much fun with the Walther. Those of you here giving the Walther a black eye, do you own one? Also higher capacity magazines are available for the WMP if that’s your beef. I have had two PMR’s and even though they are a lot of fun, the WMP kicked mine to the curb.
Kinda funny smith wants to be Keltec when they grow up.
Right?! They are like the Communist China of gun manufacturers. Copy everything
This ain't a pistol one buys out of "need" for most of us. And more than adequately touched on it: cost.I'll probably end up with one eventually but really I don't see where it does much my two KelTecs don't other than cost and weigh twice as much as either. Both the Keltecs are late model I gave $350 apiece for and they weigh 14oz unloaded. And they're perfectly reliable(spend 30 bucks on a loader, sheesh). But they won't easily accept a dot so the Smith is probably in my future.
Two things I HATE about .22Mag,....
The COST! $0.34/rd for rimfire is ridiculous. I've never paid that for 5.56. It is NOT as claimed in every video 'affordable'. I have been searching for yrs for 'affordable' .22Mag,.....typical gunshow prices are $25-30 per 50 rd box. That's 50-60 cents per rd folks. Finally found some Maxi-Mag HP in the 125rd milk cartons at WM not long ago,.....two of those traded over the counter for $63 and change. That's the best price I've seen in yrs of searching, equivilent to the BEST price I can find online. That's $0.25 per rd. 'Affordable'? Compared to everything else, maybe, but compared to what it actually is and does, no.
The POWER! It's all blast and very little ballistic gain. Basically .22Mag from a handgun is equal to .22LR from a rifle. Every video I watched following this S&W release crowed about that 2000fps,....which ain't happening from a pistol barrel. I watched three or four vids the other day, some 20min+, and not a one gave actual or even estimated velocity from the Smith although EVERY vid gushed about the 2000fps on the friggin' box. You're paying 10x cost for a couple hundred fps and a fireball.
When I went searching for a 22mag rifle I ended up buying the Ruger PC Carbine in 9mm.The COST! $0.34/rd for rimfire is ridiculous. I've never paid that for 5.56. It is NOT as claimed in every video 'affordable'. I have been searching for yrs for 'affordable' .22Mag,.....typical gunshow prices are $25-30 per 50 rd box. That's 50-60 cents per rd folks. Finally found some Maxi-Mag HP in the 125rd milk cartons at WM not long ago,.....two of those traded over the counter for $63 and change. That's the best price I've seen in yrs of searching, equivilent to the BEST price I can find online. That's $0.25 per rd. 'Affordable'? Compared to everything else, maybe, but compared to what it actually is and does, no.
I agree that those touting 2000 fps from a .22 mag pistol are very annoying, especially since a lot of loads won't do that from a rifle. However, saying that .22 mag in a pistol is just .22 LR from a rifle level is too much in the opposite direction. A .22 mag from a pistol with a 4"-5" barrel like this one is like a .22 LR from a rifle plus around an extra 200 fps, with better bullets, and in my experience, at least somewhat better reliability.I'll probably end up with one eventually but really I don't see where it does much my two KelTecs don't other than cost and weigh twice as much as either. Both the Keltecs are late model I gave $350 apiece for and they weigh 14oz unloaded. And they're perfectly reliable(spend 30 bucks on a loader, sheesh). But they won't easily accept a dot so the Smith is probably in my future.
Two things I HATE about .22Mag,....
The COST! $0.34/rd for rimfire is ridiculous. I've never paid that for 5.56. It is NOT as claimed in every video 'affordable'. I have been searching for yrs for 'affordable' .22Mag,.....typical gunshow prices are $25-30 per 50 rd box. That's 50-60 cents per rd folks. Finally found some Maxi-Mag HP in the 125rd milk cartons at WM not long ago,.....two of those traded over the counter for $63 and change. That's the best price I've seen in yrs of searching, equivilent to the BEST price I can find online. That's $0.25 per rd. 'Affordable'? Compared to everything else, maybe, but compared to what it actually is and does, no.
The POWER! It's all blast and very little ballistic gain. Basically .22Mag from a handgun is equal to .22LR from a rifle. Every video I watched following this S&W release crowed about that 2000fps,....which ain't happening from a pistol barrel. I watched three or four vids the other day, some 20min+, and not a one gave actual or even estimated velocity from the Smith although EVERY vid gushed about the 2000fps on the friggin' box. You're paying 10x cost for a couple hundred fps and a fireball.
22TCM just gets to, and maybe slightly over 2000fps with a 5" barrel. 22mag I haven't seen any ballistic tests that I recall. So I'm going to look that up now and see how close they get.I agree that those touting 2000 fps from a .22 mag pistol are very annoying, especially since a lot of loads won't do that from a rifle. However, saying that .22 mag in a pistol is just .22 LR from a rifle level is too much in the opposite direction. A .22 mag from a pistol with a 4"-5" barrel like this one is like a .22 LR from a rifle plus around an extra 200 fps, with better bullets, and in my experience, at least somewhat better reliability.
A .22 mag doesn't and shouldn't replace a 9mm for most people. Not every situation calls for a 9mm though. Most people are not going to opt for a 9mm to hunt small game, even though the ammo is cheaper. For me, I carry my PMR-30 when I'm working on my farm because I want a lightweight handgun that is well suited for varmint control but that can also double for self defense in the unlikely event that I need it. In some places on my farm I simply don't want to be lobbing 9mm around. It basically fills the exact role a .22 LR rifle would, plus a little more, all while being much lighter and less bulky. I do agree that a .22 mag pistol doesn't make a lot of sense for frequent plinking though it is a lot of fun.
.22 Mag Ballistics by the inch22TCM just gets to, and maybe slightly over 2000fps with a 5" barrel. 22mag I haven't seen any ballistic tests that I recall. So I'm going to look that up now and see how close they get.
I don't think an 18" barrel shooting Velocitors is all that accurate of a comparison for standard 40 grain .22 LR loads but the comparison is closer for heavier bullets. I've never had a .22 LR that even shot Velocitor well at all. You can find .22 mag loads that perform better than most .22 LR loads without too much trouble. There are also newer .22 mag loads designed for short barrels, though they are expensive. If you want expansion, then the lighter bullets can do it from a .22 mag pistol. Penetration is more important with small calibers and yes, JHP will do a better job of that than soft lead and similarly to a FMJ, if there were such a thing in .22 LR.I'm not seeing the extra 200fps from the Mag pistol over an LR rifle. Maybe if you carefully pick a lightweight bullet, maybe? And another problem that gets glossed over,.....those 'better bullets'. The Mag might have honest-to-goodness JHP construction compared to the 'copper washed' HP of the LR, but for the most part those bullets are designed to expand at the rifle velocities, not the pistol velocities. Lotta good that 'better' bullet is gonna do you out of a pistol length barrel. Won't be any different than a FMJ or lead round nose on the target. When Paul Harrell posts up with a vid we can talk some more. He'll do it right with his velocity chart comparisons and meat targets.
Hey, 22LR performance in a 30rd pistol you can carry on your hip is nothing to sneeze at. I just get hung up on the cost,.......if I need the performace I reach for the 22LR rifle. If I need the convenience, a 22LR pistol is probably close enough. I just don't often see myself needing the combination of the two to the point that the ammo costs can be justified.
I stacked .22Mag ammo when it was 7c/rd and I had a 77/22M. That combo seemed reasonable but I sold the rifle. I keep the PMR30s because they're LIGHT with good triggers and 30rd mags that also happen to fit in my CMR30 RIFLE. As long as there's a rifle in the mix the 22Mag makes some sense,.....to me. The 22Mag 2" Taurus? No excuse for that one except that I was on a 22 revolver kick at the time and it came with a viridian green laser. Assumed there was more diff between 22Mag and 22LR at the time of purchase,....live and learn. There is a difference, but pretty much only in ammo cost. Ouch.
Now if Smith comes out with a companion rifle that takes the same magazine,.....and I don't think the rifle is less than the CMR30,.....I'll probably buy the pistol/rifle combo. Or if the Smith pistol drops down in price to near what I can pick up PMR30s for I'll probably try a Smith. But at the current 2:1 price of the gun, ammo cost notwithstanding, I most likely won't.