1911 9mm vs Browning HP

[LCSOSgt11]

The 1911 was designed for the .45 ACP caliber.
The Browning P-35 "Hi Power" was designed for the 9mm.

If one wants, why not have both???

 

[wagyu52]

Never understood the "1911 should be .45 and nothing else because it wasn't designed that way" crowd. I love my 1911's in .45 but feel no animosity towards my 1911's In 9MM or that they are inferior. You never hear anyone claim that a P226 in .40 is not a true P226 cause it wasn't designed for .40 or it was somehow inferior to a 9mm P226. Just seems odd.

 

[Lowe0]

I can't get a made in USA Hi Power (do they even exist?). I can get a 1911 9mm made here pretty easily. That's a big advantage for the 1911 in my book.

 

[Drail]

The 1911 was specifically designed for the .45 ACP cartridge. The Army Ordnance Board specified the cartridge first and Browning designed a pistol for it. It was dimensioned to hold, feed, fire and eject that cartridge specifically. Chambering a 1911 in any other caliber compromises the efficiency of that design. While it certainly can and has been done, in most cases it will not be as reliable as it is with the .45 ACP. The High Power was specifically designed to function with the 9mm cartridge. I also believe that of the two, the High Power has better ergonomics for most hands which is impressive considering how good the ergonomics of the 1911 are. People have been attempting to "improve" on Browning's design genius for many years - and the result will always be a compromise.

 

[Robert Richardson]

The 1911 was designed for the .45 ACP caliber.
The Browning P-35 "Hi Power" was designed for the 9mm.

If one wants, why not have both???

1911 in 45acp, 7rds., was for Americans that could hit the target. Hi-Power was for Europeans that needed more rounds to hit the target. I have both, I prefer the 1911 with big bullets. If I carried a 9mm it would be the Hi-Power.

 

[wagyu52]

The 1911 was specifically designed for the .45 ACP cartridge. The Army Ordnance Board specified the cartridge first and Browning designed a pistol for it. It was dimensioned to hold, feed, fire and eject that cartridge specifically. Chambering a 1911 in any other caliber compromises the efficiency of that design. While it certainly can and has been done, in most cases it will not be as reliable as it is with the .45 ACP. The High Power was specifically designed to function with the 9mm cartridge. I also believe that of the two, the High Power has better ergonomics for most hands which is impressive considering how good the ergonomics of the 1911 are. People have been attempting to "improve" on Browning's design genius for many years - and the result will always be a compromise.

I've seen 1911 in .38 super, 9MM and .22 function flawless for 10's of thousands of rounds. I've had a stainless Colt Officers in .45 that never fired a full mag without a FTF. I get what you are saying but fail to understand why it matters.

 

[Drail]

If a 1911 chambered in .45 ACP is built to original blueprint specifications with close tolerances it will be one of the most reliable guns you will ever shoot (if the ammo is also in spec). Once you start modifyng magazines and feed ramps for other cartridges then new problems will appear which have to be dealt with. There are so many little things that can affect reliability in a semi auto - the less you create by modfying the original design - the better.

 

[Bapak2ja]

There are so many little things that can affect reliability in a semi auto - the less you create by modfying the original design - the better.

I prefer originals, but mods do not seem to bother the AR or 10/22 crowd or disrupt the reliability of their units.

 

[halfmileharry]

I prefer originals, but mods do not seem to bother the AR or 10/22 crowd or disrupt the reliability of their units.

A properly upgraded 1911 is an excellent gun without issue. Many modifications done by "bubba" aren't gonna work out so well.

 

[Leo]

When I had younger eyes, I had a couple of High Power Brownings and an FEG copy (with a vent rib no less) They were great shooting arms. The small sights on the high power no longer work for me, and the shape on the top of the slide really does not lend itself to larger, or adjustable sights. Even the "Target model" Browning looks like a big hat on an anorexic.

 

[Que]

I've owned the HP, but sold it after giving it a try. It just didn't fit my hand and for me the 1911 in 9mm is the better choice.

 

[blueboxer]

I haven't considered the BHP because of CZ. It's all I need in a steel frame double stack 9mm. The 1911 in 9mm I find interesting because (heresy alert)...now that I have put some good rounds through a Range Officer...well it has a tendency to make all the attributes you love about the 1911 better.

 

[calcot7]

The CZ 75 was designed after the Hi-Power to be a DA/SA pistol.

 

[Disposable Heart]

Parts support, magazine availability, holster availability and ease of modification = 1911
Capacity = BHP

The trigger issues that can develop (overtravel) with taking out the BHP mag safety, unless you want to spend money at a GOOD gunsmith (not the local guy that ceracoats and installs glock parts) is a no-win for me. The BHP has little modern holster support, making you go custom or modify your training regimen to work around an off the shelf holster.

There are far more GOOD 1911 smiths out there than there are BHP smiths and those who work on BHP command a premium to smooth a trigger that the 1911 will beat out of the box.

As for the "it's gotta be .45", with our shooting population aging and recoil becoming a concern, 9mm 1911s are REALLY coming out ahead, particularly now that they have magazine and OAL issues known and handled by the aftermarket. Much to the gnashing of teeth of purists, the 1911 is no longer "just a .45" gun...

 

[Colt556]

I have 1911s in 38 Super, 10mm and 45 but none in 9mm. I have several HPs and CZ 75s in 9mm. I like them all for different reasons. I really like the way the HP feels in my hand and I can shoot them fairly well. I've never had an issue with the slides cutting my hand as of yet. The grip fits my hand perfectly and when I bring the pistol up to fire the sights are right on target. The CZs are a dream to shoot as well. My first one was purchased when there was still a wall in Europe and they weren't imported into the US directly, it came through Canada and was around $1000! I've since picked up a few more as well as a model 97 in 45. They all shoot well and are a pleasure to own. The 1911s, well I just like em period. Most days I carry an HK P7 so I guess it's a moot point anywho....

 

[rhino]

A 1911 in 9mm can have a much better trigger pull than even a highly tuned P35. It's also easier for people with small hands or short fingers to shoot well.

 

[ru44mag]

Thanks for all the great comments. I did not realize how much easier it was to tune a 1911. I just removed the mag safeties on all my HPs and thought the trigger was great. I have only had a trigger job done on one pistol, a Ruger Mark III. So I am a little bit ignorant in that since. I typically just plink out back. Water bottles, steel. Occasionally hunt with pistols. Hopefully this thread educated others besides myself, and maybe one person thought, yeah, maybe I should try a HP, and fall in love with it. I know that's how I discovered the CZ. And I am very happy with it. Hopefully I can add a 1911 to my collection. I do love the heritage and history behind the pistol and the man that gave it to us.

 

[jbombelli]

I can't get a made in USA Hi Power (do they even exist?). I can get a 1911 9mm made here pretty easily. That's a big advantage for the 1911 in my book.

HiPowers are made in Belgium, assembled in Portugal. Except for a few clones like FEG.

There are no US made HiPowers that I'm aware of.

 

[ru44mag]

HiPowers are made in Belgium, assembled in Portugal. Except for a few clones like FEG.

There are no US made HiPowers that I'm aware of.

Actually, I believe one of my Hi-Powers was made in the US. I have a low serial number Charles Daly HP. I bought it new in 2004. The research I have done, says the FEG HPs were directly copied from FN HP using original FN machinery that FEG bought from them and in turn Charles Daly bought from FEG. So they are about as close to a BHP as you can get without being a BHP. The quality of my pistol is very high, and for the price, I could not pass it up, and plan to keep it for a very long time.

 

[jbombelli]

Actually, I believe one of my Hi-Powers was made in the US. I have a low serial number Charles Daly HP. I bought it new in 2004. The research I have done, says the FEG HPs were directly copied from FN HP using original FN machinery that FEG bought from them and in turn Charles Daly bought from FEG. So they are about as close to a BHP as you can get without being a BHP. The quality of my pistol is very high, and for the price, I could not pass it up, and plan to keep it for a very long time.

"Was" being the important term. They were made from imported parts and stamped "made in the USA". But they cost more to make than they sold for, and I don't think they make them anymore. But also, they were actually finished by either Dan Wesson or Magnum Research and given the Charles Daly name.

At least from what I remember.

But I've heard the few that are out there are good guns, and their owners tend to hold on to them. They didn't have the fit/finish of the Brownings, but good guns nonetheless.