As long as I would not have to pay for it again, I just paid my fees not long ago.
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2013 Legislative session
- Thread starter Bill of Rights
- Start date
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As long as I would not have to pay for it again, I just paid my fees not long ago.
The current LTCH would probably still be an option, it just would not be required in Indiana under Constitutional Carry. Look at how Alaska and Arizona do it: No requirement, but still issued for the sake of reciprocity.
Of course, that's all conjecture, as no state is bound to recognize any other state's permission slips (which still makes no sense to me) and as there is no bill to DO this at this time.
Blessings,
Bill
Well then I would be ok with that.
Van Phillips
Plinker
First, you should all know that I'm the guy that asked my Senator to propose SB555. And for only ONE reason, and that is that I would like my CCW to be recognized by as many other states as possible.
Yes, I have an Indiana Lifetime Carry Permit and I have also a Non-resident Utah Permit. The Utah permit is not a piece of pink paper I could make on my printer at home. The Utah permit is like my drivers license, with my picture, all my valid information such as date of birth and address ... and yes it required me to take a class for issue. And, guess what that Utah permit is valid in 5 more states than my Indiana permit.
Please understand the request I made of my Senator never intended for a new permit to REPLACE the current Indiana CCW! Nor was it intended to revoke having a LIFETIME issue. It was to be an optional permit for those who choose to apply for one. I even suggested that the endorsement could be a symbol placed upon your drivers license - if cost was the issue.
Why are some states not willing to recognize the current Indiana CCW permit:
* There is no picture proving you are the person listed
* There is no training (or better proof you know how a gun operates)
* Because it is never re-validated, the information could be wrong - and a
person might even have done something that would not allow them to
even own a firearm - NOW.
You may never travel, but as a consultant I travel constantly so having my CCW recognized by as many states as possible is important to me. AND, if you even vacation outside of Indiana - IT MIGHT BE IMPORTANT TO YOU AS WELL. So I really hope that SB555 passes and we all have access to a second tier Carry Permit!
Now, because I'm new here let me tell you a little bit about myself.
I am a Patron level / Life Member of the NRA. My wife is a member of the NRA and typically hosts a table at the FNRA Annual Dinner honoring the 4H Shooting Sports Instructors. And, yes we know Attorney Kirk Freeman, who posted above, heck my wife does his taxes.
Two of my sons are Life members of the NRA and my middle son works in the firearms area at Lafayette Gander Mountain store and teaches our 4H Black Powder program. So as a family we have a lot invested in our 2nd Amendment rights!
I frequently write articles for a website called USA Carry (which you might access just to see where your CCW is honored and where it is not - then see how many states are added if your permit is from say Kentucky!) - Concealed Carry - Resources, Maps, Forums, Articles - USA Carry
Here is my profile from USA Carry:
Van Phillips uses his long university teaching teaching experience as an NRA Pistol Instructor offering numerous yearly classes in Central Indiana for adults. He is also a 4H Pistol and Shotgun Instructor, CMP and SCTP Coach. Van is a competitive clay target shooter active in both ATA Trap and Sporting Clays. While he teaches pistol to adults so that through knowledge they can be better and safer firearms owners, his passion is empowering the youth who represent the future for continuation of 2nd Amendment and Concealed Carry rites!
Yes, I have an Indiana Lifetime Carry Permit and I have also a Non-resident Utah Permit. The Utah permit is not a piece of pink paper I could make on my printer at home. The Utah permit is like my drivers license, with my picture, all my valid information such as date of birth and address ... and yes it required me to take a class for issue. And, guess what that Utah permit is valid in 5 more states than my Indiana permit.
Please understand the request I made of my Senator never intended for a new permit to REPLACE the current Indiana CCW! Nor was it intended to revoke having a LIFETIME issue. It was to be an optional permit for those who choose to apply for one. I even suggested that the endorsement could be a symbol placed upon your drivers license - if cost was the issue.
Why are some states not willing to recognize the current Indiana CCW permit:
* There is no picture proving you are the person listed
* There is no training (or better proof you know how a gun operates)
* Because it is never re-validated, the information could be wrong - and a
person might even have done something that would not allow them to
even own a firearm - NOW.
You may never travel, but as a consultant I travel constantly so having my CCW recognized by as many states as possible is important to me. AND, if you even vacation outside of Indiana - IT MIGHT BE IMPORTANT TO YOU AS WELL. So I really hope that SB555 passes and we all have access to a second tier Carry Permit!
Now, because I'm new here let me tell you a little bit about myself.
I am a Patron level / Life Member of the NRA. My wife is a member of the NRA and typically hosts a table at the FNRA Annual Dinner honoring the 4H Shooting Sports Instructors. And, yes we know Attorney Kirk Freeman, who posted above, heck my wife does his taxes.
Two of my sons are Life members of the NRA and my middle son works in the firearms area at Lafayette Gander Mountain store and teaches our 4H Black Powder program. So as a family we have a lot invested in our 2nd Amendment rights!
I frequently write articles for a website called USA Carry (which you might access just to see where your CCW is honored and where it is not - then see how many states are added if your permit is from say Kentucky!) - Concealed Carry - Resources, Maps, Forums, Articles - USA Carry
Here is my profile from USA Carry:
Van Phillips uses his long university teaching teaching experience as an NRA Pistol Instructor offering numerous yearly classes in Central Indiana for adults. He is also a 4H Pistol and Shotgun Instructor, CMP and SCTP Coach. Van is a competitive clay target shooter active in both ATA Trap and Sporting Clays. While he teaches pistol to adults so that through knowledge they can be better and safer firearms owners, his passion is empowering the youth who represent the future for continuation of 2nd Amendment and Concealed Carry rites!
Welcome to ingo. But fyi I shouldn't need to "prove" I know how to use a gun by having training. It would be nice but many people don't get "formal" training and are fit to carry. Before the army the only training in firearms I had was growing up with them my whole life being taught from my family and boy scouts. Not let me carry a firearm because I didn't have any training? Firearm disciple and marksmanship was bestowed to me by my family. we don't need no stinking trainer 
Van Phillips
Plinker
By the way, reading back I saw several comments about required "training" and feel I must make a few points.
1. Every time someone deemed to not be a criminal is killed even accidentally with a firearm all "law abiding" gun owners suffer. One need only look at the current situation caused by Newtown/Sandy Hook to see this reaction. But even the guy who kills say his child when cleaning a gun gets amplified in the media.
2. When the only knowledge a person has about firearms comes from the movies, TV and video games - would you trust that person with a loaded firearm around you or you children? I hope not! And consider this, I teach firearms courses at the Linden Conservation Club. One day we had a couple come to the Club with an AR-15 that they had just purchased asking some members sitting on the porch, "we just bought this can you show us how to use it?" That is still talked about by Club Members.
3. As an NRA Instructor, I have actually refused to certify a couple of individuals because no matter how I tried to get them to understand basic safety - they would fiddle and play with loaded pistols - pointing them toward other class members - load their pistol when others were down range ahead of them and even try drawing their loaded pistol with others down range of them. Would you seriously like to have those people putting your 2nd Amendment rights at risk, just to say training is an intrusion on my freedoms?
Finally, Kirk Freeman - YES! There is evidence that a "lack of a training requirement" is preventing Indiana's LTCH from being more widely accepted.
1. Every time someone deemed to not be a criminal is killed even accidentally with a firearm all "law abiding" gun owners suffer. One need only look at the current situation caused by Newtown/Sandy Hook to see this reaction. But even the guy who kills say his child when cleaning a gun gets amplified in the media.
2. When the only knowledge a person has about firearms comes from the movies, TV and video games - would you trust that person with a loaded firearm around you or you children? I hope not! And consider this, I teach firearms courses at the Linden Conservation Club. One day we had a couple come to the Club with an AR-15 that they had just purchased asking some members sitting on the porch, "we just bought this can you show us how to use it?" That is still talked about by Club Members.
3. As an NRA Instructor, I have actually refused to certify a couple of individuals because no matter how I tried to get them to understand basic safety - they would fiddle and play with loaded pistols - pointing them toward other class members - load their pistol when others were down range ahead of them and even try drawing their loaded pistol with others down range of them. Would you seriously like to have those people putting your 2nd Amendment rights at risk, just to say training is an intrusion on my freedoms?
Finally, Kirk Freeman - YES! There is evidence that a "lack of a training requirement" is preventing Indiana's LTCH from being more widely accepted.
You know why most states dont honors indianas CCW permit...because IN doesnt issue a "CCW" permit, they do issue an LTCH though
So what about #2, they buy a rifle, make an attempt to learn how to use it, and your club members still talk about it? Is that is the way linden conservation club members normally treat people who are new to firearms?
That was my first thought too...
to INGO from Mitchell!Thank you for your well written post but I must disagree with you. I'll not retype the reasons but I would like to address a couple of points in your post.
I too would love to see all CCW's, LTCH's, etc. mutually recognized by all the states. But it seems to me you've already got a means at your disposal to gain reciprocity to the additional states you seem to desire. With the Utah permit, there is already choice available to Indiana gun owners. If I want to carry in additional states, I can with that credential, if I don't care, I can be happy with my Indiana LTCH. And I can make that choice without adding any more state bureaucracy, regulation, and cost.
Many laws start out with the best of intentions. However we should not only consider how the law will be interpreted while "our side" is in power--We must also be wary of how it could be interpreted or even worse used as leverage detrimental to "our side" when "the other side" gains power. I see this law as an all-too-easy excuse for states that already accept our current LTCH to change their position and only honor this new, super license...especially as gun infringing law makers are already pressuring their states to enact draconian laws.
Firearms are intimidating in of themselves to many. We need as many new, law abiding gun owners as possible if we're going to maintain and grow admiration of the 2A. Gun owners are doing themselves a disservice if they do not jump on every opportunity they can to draw in and welcome new shooters. You don't say and I don't know how your club treated those noobs, but first impressions are lasting impressions. If I were a member of your club, I'd like to think I'd have been the first to jump up and gladly got that couple comfortable with their new purchase as I possibly could. And hopefully all the talk among the club members would have been bragging about the new shooters they've indoctrinated in the gun world.
Yep can't really wrap my head around this.
Van Phillips
Plinker
You know why most states dont honors indianas CCW permit...because IN doesnt issue a "CCW" permit, they do issue an LTCH though
Well as Indiana's permit does not specify concealed or open carry it is in effect a CCW. If other states only allow open carry then you would have to obey that states carry requirement.
So it doesn't say its a concealed carry permit, so that makes it a CCW?
Van Phillips
Plinker
Actually the LCC does offer classes and instruction as mentioned before. However, not everyone there is either an instructor or even interested in shooting as it is a full Conservation Club. When one of the fishermen who was there tells the story, he always says< "Wouldn't you read the instructions that came with it before you take it out to a range?" Remember the question was "show us how this works?"
Van Phillips
Plinker
Thank you for your well written post but I must disagree with you. I'll not retype the reasons but I would like to address a couple of points in your post.
I too would love to see all CCW's, LTCH's, etc. mutually recognized by all the states. But it seems to me you've already got a means at your disposal to gain reciprocity to the additional states you seem to desire. With the Utah permit, there is already choice available to Indiana gun owners. If I want to carry in additional states, I can with that credential, if I don't care, I can be happy with my Indiana LTCH. And I can make that choice without adding any more state bureaucracy, regulation, and cost.
Yes, and no! I would rather it be from my state of residence as many who recognize Utah's resident permit - do not recognize a non-resident one.
Many laws start out with the best of intentions. However we should not only consider how the law will be interpreted while "our side" is in power--We must also be wary of how it could be interpreted or even worse used as leverage detrimental to "our side" when "the other side" gains power. I see this law as an all-too-easy excuse for states that already accept our current LTCH to change their position and only honor this new, super license...especially as gun infringing law makers are already pressuring their states to enact draconian laws.
I can certainly agree that elected officials can screw up any otherwise simple bill. And if that becomes true of SB555 I would be the first to say the transformed bill should be voted down. And, as Senate Majority Leader Senator Hershman certainly knows how to withdraw a bill with un-related additions. But, so far that is not true.
Firearms are intimidating in of themselves to many. We need as many new, law abiding gun owners as possible if we're going to maintain and grow admiration of the 2A. Gun owners are doing themselves a disservice if they do not jump on every opportunity they can to draw in and welcome new shooters. You don't say and I don't know how your club treated those noobs, but first impressions are lasting impressions. If I were a member of your club, I'd like to think I'd have been the first to jump up and gladly got that couple comfortable with their new purchase as I possibly could. And hopefully all the talk among the club members would have been bragging about the new shooters they've indoctrinated in the gun world.
See a related response!
So a couple buys their first rifle comes to a club that is known for some of its patrons having knowledge of guns to learn about their new purchase and exercise their 2a right, and that's funny to you....
Alright, everybody. Calm down. The guy comes in here making intelligent posts, is interested in our common interests, and everybody starts jumping down his throat. Lets actually be welcoming instead! No need to quibble over terminology like CCW versus LTCH just because you didn't agree with some of his comments about the proposed legislation.
Welcome to INGO, Van.
Welcome to INGO, Van.
Alright, everybody. Calm down. The guy comes in here making intelligent posts, is interested in our common interests, and everybody starts jumping down his throat. Lets actually be welcoming instead! No need to quibble over terminology like CCW versus LTCH just because you didn't agree with some of his comments about the proposed legislation.
Welcome to INGO, Van.
Was waiting for someone to chime in. Welcome Van!
