2018 Income Tax Return Rant

[KLB]

"welping little puppies"?

Wow.

They're parents may have made bad decisions, but to call the children "puppies"...



Well, in a way it is earned. It is based on income, i.e. the more you make, the more EIC you get (to a point).

We may not like it, but the overwhelming number of economist do.

I'm sorry. That isn't earned. This is a credit for having a job and not making more than a certain amount of money. Yet another item that incentivizes people to not strive to do better for themselves, since if they make too much they start losing that free money.

 

[jedi]

I'm sorry. That isn't earned. This is a credit for having a job and not making more than a certain amount of money. Yet another item that incentivizes people to not strive to do better for themselves, since if they make too much they start losing that free money.

bingo...
i know quit a few city workers that work just enough to meet the EIC levels and then stop working till the end of the year because they know if they make more uts bye bye eic.

 

[CPT Nervous]

People love to exploit the system. On one hand, I can't blame them. They system is designed to be exploited, and boy do people take advantage of that.

 

[MarkC]

It didn't take very long for them to get around that 1% cap. They just raised everyone's assessed value. Voila', more money, while technically still observing the 1% cap.

I saw this first hand in Marion County. During the worst times of the economic downturn, our modest house was increasing in value, at least according to the assessor. Voila', the Constitution's puny caps meant nothing! At least where we are now, we are nowhere near the cap.

Based on the comments here, it is pretty apparent that most commenters are net givers, and not takers. But I believe that opposition to gun ownership fits with the liberal paradigm of people should not be allowed to make their own decisions, and those aren't the kind of folks drawn to INGO, IMHO.

 

[ATOMonkey]

I saw this first hand in Marion County. During the worst times of the economic downturn, our modest house was increasing in value, at least according to the assessor. Voila', the Constitution's puny caps meant nothing! At least where we are now, we are nowhere near the cap.

Based on the comments here, it is pretty apparent that most commenters are net givers, and not takers. But I believe that opposition to gun ownership fits with the liberal paradigm of people should not be allowed to make their own decisions, and those aren't the kind of folks drawn to INGO, IMHO.

With the assessment, I know that a lot of homes were only assessed when bought or sold. So, a lot of residents were paying taxes that were 20 years out of date. Part of the push during that time was to get accurate assessments to go along with the caps. In Hamilton county the assessor was having a hard time just keeping up with all of the new construction. My cousin didn't even get an assessment on his house for several years after moving in. Of course, he had to pay the back taxes... I had a friend that lived on College here in Marion and his home was still assessed at 1980s value, as it had just never been updated.

At the end of the day though, I still think that property taxes need to be eliminated, as you are renting from the government. Since property tax exists everywhere, Indiana is still probably the best place to live. My parents pay out the nose in IL.

Regarding taxes on income... I'd rather be taxed based on my spending rather than my earning, but I'll meet you in the middle. You give me the 14% for my Social Security and whatever they take out for medicare and Medicaid, and I'll put up with an income tax.

 

[JettaKnight]

Since property tax exists everywhere, Indiana is still probably the best place to live. [/B]My parents pay out the nose in IL.

My brother, who moved back from Denver, just rolls his eyes whenever he hears someone complain about property taxes.

Regarding taxes on income... I'd rather be taxed based on my spending rather than my earning, but I'll meet you in the middle. You give me the 14% for my Social Security and whatever they take out for medicare and Medicaid, and I'll put up with an income tax.

My take is, if many things are taxed a small amount, then there's not an incentive to either change your behavior or cheat. If you put all the taxes onto sales, then you've got a big incentive to create a black market to avoid taxes. If you put it on on property, then property becomes unaffordable to many. All on income? Then there's a big incentive to hide income or simply not work.

 

[BugI02]

My brother, who moved back from Denver, just rolls his eyes whenever he hears someone complain about property taxes.



My take is, if many things are taxed a small amount, then there's not an incentive to either change your behavior or cheat. If you put all the taxes onto sales, then you've got a big incentive to create a black market to avoid taxes. If you put it on on property, then property becomes unaffordable to many. All on income? Then there's a big incentive to hide income or simply not work.

THIS^^^^

See: Greece

 

[ATOMonkey]

My brother, who moved back from Denver, just rolls his eyes whenever he hears someone complain about property taxes.



My take is, if many things are taxed a small amount, then there's not an incentive to either change your behavior or cheat. If you put all the taxes onto sales, then you've got a big incentive to create a black market to avoid taxes. If you put it on on property, then property becomes unaffordable to many. All on income? Then there's a big incentive to hide income or simply not work.

My take is that people will do whatever is most convenient. We could all be brewing our own beer and distilling our own whiskey and growing our own tobacco.

It's a lot easier to just go to the store and buy it. A retail tax would be hard to cheat, IMO. It may open the door to non-retail, direct service type business. For instance, if you contract a guy to make you a table, then it's not retail. If you go to Box Mart and buy a table, retail tax. It could launch a whole cottage industry!

Buying things second hand has always been around, but it's difficult. I doubt a tax would change that. Especially since the price to produce goods would go down about the same amount as the tax that is being charged, so it should be a wash.

I've done the math and bought the t-shirt. You're going to have a hard time convincing me that a Federal retail tax that replaces all other taxes isn't the best idea.

 

[MarkC]

I've done the math and bought the t-shirt. You're going to have a hard time convincing me that a Federal retail tax that replaces all other taxes isn't the best idea.

A consumption-based tax is the fairest and is the hardest to cheat. There are many "fair tax" proponents out there.

If we exempt groceries and medicine, there is a good argument that the tax isn't regressive, either.

 

[HoughMade]

A consumption-based tax is the fairest and is the hardest to cheat. There are many "fair tax" proponents out there.

If we exempt groceries and medicine, there is a good argument that the tax isn't regressive, either.

Once a tax is created, it never goes away.

If we were to have a consumption tax, we can be assured it would be in addition to, and not a replacement for, an income tax.

 

[KittySlayer]

My take is, if many things are taxed a small amount, then there's not an incentive to either change your behavior or cheat. If you put all the taxes onto sales, then you've got a big incentive to create a black market to avoid taxes. If you put it on on property, then property becomes unaffordable to many. All on income? Then there's a big incentive to hide income or simply not work.

A consumption-based tax is the fairest and is the hardest to cheat. There are many "fair tax" proponents out there.

If we exempt groceries and medicine, there is a good argument that the tax isn't regressive, either.

Having one(1) type of tax just doesn't work well, particularly at the state and local level:

• Property Tax only - makes the cost of buying a house or starting a business cost excessive, causes rental options to be unaffordable. Also creates a mobile population that may leave the state/county. Think of the fringe rings around big cities in Indiana where people use the city benefits but only pay taxes to their outlying counties.
• Income Tax only - when wealthy people stop working they have lots of funds but no income to generate tax for the services they need/want/use. Think of snowbirds in Florida.
• Sales Tax only - can be regressive, even with exemptions. For those who are saving a lot or have stopped spending a lot no tax is generated. Consumption taxes are often hidden so there is no outrage to ever increasing amounts as no one sees/feels them until they are too late. Think how much hidden tax you pay on a gallon of gas and how long it took the French Yellow Vest to become outraged.

Top 3% of U.S. Taxpayers Paid Majority of Income Tax in 2016 so in theory nearly half the nation would not need to file income taxes annually with some nominal tweaks on the wealthy. I like most citizens having to go through the agony of filing taxes every spring. That makes them taxpayers (although nominally) and gives them an interest in controlling taxes and spending. Otherwise they get the mentality of the Gimmie Free Stuff crowd who spends other peoples money with abandon. Well of course our current fire engine works but a shiny new one would be so cool.

The problem has always been too much spending which leads to too much taxing. There are things I expect from my government and am willing to pay for (roads, fire, police, military, appropriate welfare...) and things I don't want to pay for (PBS, stupid research grants, excessive welfare for life...).

 

[jedi]

Once a tax is created, it never goes away.

If we were to have a consumption tax, we can be assured it would be in addition to, and not a replacement for, an income tax.

^this!!!

heck the original income tax was to help pay for the civil war. then in 1913 congress became hungry $$$ and we have the current system.

 

[drawer86]

I got a better idea - - "user fees". You know, kinda like real life. Where, if you want something, you pay for it. If you don't, you don't. It can be done, because it's already being done, for lots of things gov't related. License plates for example. Wanna drive on the road, buy a plate. There fore, people would be "taxed" on what they spend rather than what they earn.

 

[JettaKnight]

I got a better idea - - "user fees". You know, kinda like real life. Where, if you want something, you pay for it. If you don't, you don't. It can be done, because it's already being done, for lots of things gov't related. License plates for example. Wanna drive on the road, buy a plate. There fore, people would be "taxed" on what they spend rather than what they earn.

You've named the easy one, but what about police, fire, criminal justice, etc., etc.



Autopsies and lighthouses.


Those are just two items where user fees fail to work. Why pay for an autopsy? Your family member is dead, you don't get any benefit, yet society benefits from them in general. If I don't pay the lighthouse fee, how are you going to keep me from using the lighthouse?

 

[cce1302]

Crowdfunding gofundme.com style.

You want better roads, make a donation.

The government would find out quickly what the people actually consider to be important functions of government.

 

[JettaKnight]

Crowdfunding gofundme.com style.

You want better roads, make a donation.

The government would find out quickly what the people actually consider to be important functions of government.

Again, why should I pay for something that you get to use for free?

 

[KLB]

Again, why should I pay for something that you get to use for free?

This is why anything voluntary would never work. There are way too many people who would never contribute, whether they used something or not.

 

[cce1302]

Again, why should I pay for something that you get to use for free?

You wouldn't have to under my system. You could if you want to. It's sometimes called "philanthropy."

Under the current system, not only are you forced to pay for things that I get for free, you are forced to pay for things that you don't even want me to have in the first place.

 

[ATOMonkey]

This is why anything voluntary would never work. There are way too many people who would never contribute, whether they used something or not.

Isn't that just called government right now??

 

[NKBJ]

Heh, ever read the book
The Pied Pipers of Babylon?