.22 For a Carry?

[VERT]

I know a guy who took a 9mm to the mouth. He has a couple false teeth now. But still very talkative and even still enjoys a good good steak.

 

[KMaC]

Secondary butthole. I think that is my new band name.

If I saw a band with that name I would think that it was named after an attitude rather than a physical feature. You know, Secondary Butthole is someone that wants to be obnoxious but just doesn't quite have enough egotism. Although, if they came on stage with punk clothes and a bunch of piercings then maybe it is named after a feature.

 

[Coach]

I know a guy who took a 9mm to the mouth. He has a couple false teeth now. But still very talkative and even still enjoys a good good steak.

Read the same thing in an AAR about .223 in the teeth in Iraq.

 

[Captaincrunk]

I'm familiar with the channel, but don't put a lot of faith in amateur testing. I've got access to info from professional labs that isn't readily accessible to the public. No .380 that has been tested has passed the full battery of FBI tests. If I were going to carry a .380, I'd forget expansion and just run hot ball. S&B will break an adult's femur and penetrate deeply in soft tissue. It will not do both.



Sure...but hundreds of anecdotes and you can see patterns and gain useful information and "hundreds" is literally how many people I've seen shot and worked their cases as a detective.




There's no reason to reinvent the wheel, except for entertainment and to make those YouTube dollars. The FBI testing protocol accounts for those variables. Which is why I said the auto glass is relevant even if you aren't shooting through windshields because it also shows pretty accurately how a given round does against bone. About the only relevant variable that isn't tested is deflection angle, how easy it is for the bullet to glance off round bone. Wadcutter profiles and most HP rounds resist this, though, as the shoulder will dig in. Ball ammo that doesn't deform is easier to deflect, and the result is sometimes a bullet that rides the skull or a rib around, just under the skin, but never penetrates the bone into organs.

Penetration matters more than expansion, and until you've got reliable penetration in at least 4LD, heavy clothes, and auto glass tests I'm not interested and will stick with non-expanding ammo that can get that penetration requirement.

It's one thing to say you have access to materials and testing and another to actually provide something. I have a spare car windshield lying around somewhere, we could easily do some tests.

 

[VERT]

It's one thing to say you have access to materials and testing and another to actually provide something. I have a spare car windshield lying around somewhere, we could easily do some tests.

BBI and Coach co-host a course. Sign up for it and I am sure they will be happy to share. Would also be a good time to test your equipment in a simulated environment modeled after real world defensive shootings.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

It's one thing to say you have access to materials and testing and another to actually provide something. I have a spare car windshield lying around somewhere, we could easily do some tests.

You're right. I think I've built up a pretty good reputation here as both telling the truth and as having information that's not publicly available. I hinted at the P320 drop safe issue on this forum at least a year before it became common knowledge, as a fairly recent example. Additionally, I've worked hundreds of people shot in the real wold in a host of circumstances.

However, sometimes all I can do is hint at or give a bird's eye view. When data isn't in the public view, it's often behind an NDA or otherwise not to be distributed. Distributing it and burning the people that trusted me or violating an NDA is a solid way to not get access any longer. If I can put out specifics, I do. If I can't, I put out what I can. If I'm talking hypotheticals or guess work, I say that.

So, you can either trust me or not but what I've built up a pretty good track record of knowing what I'm talking about in this arena. Enough that I get paid for much of the same info I provide overviews of here for free.

 

[rhino]

You're right. I think I've built up a pretty good reputation here as both telling the truth and as having information that's not publicly available. I hinted at the P320 drop safe issue on this forum at least a year before it became common knowledge, as a fairly recent example. Additionally, I've worked hundreds of people shot in the real wold in a host of circumstances.

However, sometimes all I can do is hint at or give a bird's eye view. When data isn't in the public view, it's often behind an NDA or otherwise not to be distributed. Distributing it and burning the people that trusted me or violating an NDA is a solid way to not get access any longer. If I can put out specifics, I do. If I can't, I put out what I can. If I'm talking hypotheticals or guess work, I say that.

So, you can either trust me or not but what I've built up a pretty good track record of knowing what I'm talking about in this arena. Enough that I get paid for much of the same info I provide overviews of here for free.

AND, you're a snappy dresser.

 

[AngryRooster]

You're right. I think I've built up a pretty good reputation here as both telling the truth and as having information that's not publicly available. I hinted at the P320 drop safe issue on this forum at least a year before it became common knowledge, as a fairly recent example. Additionally, I've worked hundreds of people shot in the real wold in a host of circumstances.

However, sometimes all I can do is hint at or give a bird's eye view. When data isn't in the public view, it's often behind an NDA or otherwise not to be distributed. Distributing it and burning the people that trusted me or violating an NDA is a solid way to not get access any longer. If I can put out specifics, I do. If I can't, I put out what I can. If I'm talking hypotheticals or guess work, I say that.

So, you can either trust me or not but what I've built up a pretty good track record of knowing what I'm talking about in this arena. Enough that I get paid for much of the same info I provide overviews of here for free.

^^^

but.... but........ Youtube....and wetpack newspaper...... I know someone who's brother's cousin's barber who saw it happen once..... What about that rotten rump roast that we wrapped in duct tape and put in a pair of jeans and shot? We put sticks in it to simulate bones...

The majority of people here, myself included, appreciate the information you share with us. Youtube may give an idea or a starting point to figuring out which ammo may fit someones's individual situation, but it's nowhere near the final word. I'll take real world information and results over couch commando jello testing any day.

Facts are facts. The 22 and 380 when fired out of the small pocket guns that are so trendy just suck. You MIGHT get lucky and it work for you, but can you count on that? Is it repeatable? How many times has it 'worked' compared to how many times it has failed? Each self defense situation is unique and NONE will be identical. Every handgun round can fail, why take a chance with something that is sub-par to start with? There are many better options out there

 

[rhino]

I wonder how many people who had to actually use a gun for defense wished at the time or afterward that they had a smaller gun, smaller caliber, or fewer rounds available.

 

[brucecrain]

I wonder how many people who had to actually use a gun for defense wished at the time or afterward that they had a smaller gun, smaller caliber, or fewer rounds available.

Probably none of them


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[HoughMade]

I wonder how many people who had to actually use a gun for defense wished at the time or afterward that they had a smaller gun, smaller caliber, or fewer rounds available.

Dude...that's anecdotal.

 

[IndyTom]

I wonder how many people who had to actually use a gun for defense wished at the time or afterward that they had a smaller gun, smaller caliber, or fewer rounds available.

I *imagine* there are a few out there...but only because of cleanup issues and likely only the smaller caliber.

 

[Thor]

I wonder how many people who had to actually use a gun for defense wished at the time or afterward that they had a smaller gun, smaller caliber, or fewer rounds available.

Probably about the same percentage of people who've shot bears for defense...dang, I knew I should have brought my .223.

 

[HoughMade]

I think the .22 LR is overkill. The .22 Long is good enough.

https://www.ammoland.com/2014/11/what-22-rifle-did-bella-twin-use-to-kill-a-world-record-grizzly-in-1953/#axzz55bliY0do

 

[Brad69]

.

 

[dudley0]

I think the .22 LR is overkill. The .22 Long is good enough.

https://www.ammoland.com/2014/11/what-22-rifle-did-bella-twin-use-to-kill-a-world-record-grizzly-in-1953/#axzz55bliY0do

Wow!

Had that lucky shot not worked they would likely be another footnote in the bears are dangerous book.

 

[Thor]

I think the .22 LR is overkill. The .22 Long is good enough.

https://www.ammoland.com/2014/11/what-22-rifle-did-bella-twin-use-to-kill-a-world-record-grizzly-in-1953/#axzz55bliY0do

And I bet the whole time that Griz was walking up on them they though that...

Neat story though. (there's always the exception...Davy Crockett and a knife for example)

 

[Captaincrunk]

^^^

but.... but........ Youtube....and wetpack newspaper...... I know someone who's brother's cousin's barber who saw it happen once..... What about that rotten rump roast that we wrapped in duct tape and put in a pair of jeans and shot? We put sticks in it to simulate bones...

The majority of people here, myself included, appreciate the information you share with us. Youtube may give an idea or a starting point to figuring out which ammo may fit someones's individual situation, but it's nowhere near the final word. I'll take real world information and results over couch commando jello testing any day.

Facts are facts. The 22 and 380 when fired out of the small pocket guns that are so trendy just suck. You MIGHT get lucky and it work for you, but can you count on that? Is it repeatable? How many times has it 'worked' compared to how many times it has failed? Each self defense situation is unique and NONE will be identical. Every handgun round can fail, why take a chance with something that is sub-par to start with? There are many better options out there

Did you even watch the videos? It's cute to mock but he used ballistics gelatin and denim, which is what the standard is.

 

[Captaincrunk]

You're right. I think I've built up a pretty good reputation here as both telling the truth and as having information that's not publicly available. I hinted at the P320 drop safe issue on this forum at least a year before it became common knowledge, as a fairly recent example. Additionally, I've worked hundreds of people shot in the real wold in a host of circumstances.

However, sometimes all I can do is hint at or give a bird's eye view. When data isn't in the public view, it's often behind an NDA or otherwise not to be distributed. Distributing it and burning the people that trusted me or violating an NDA is a solid way to not get access any longer. If I can put out specifics, I do. If I can't, I put out what I can. If I'm talking hypotheticals or guess work, I say that.

So, you can either trust me or not but what I've built up a pretty good track record of knowing what I'm talking about in this arena. Enough that I get paid for much of the same info I provide overviews of here for free.

It's not a matter of whether or not I trust your or even if your information is correct or not. I provided some videos demonstrating that there are a couple different .380 loads that consistently penetrate past 12 inches of ballistics gelatin (with and without denim) and expand reliably. And they were shot from a short barrel.

Thats it, that's all I have done.

 

[VERT]

It's not a matter of whether or not I trust your or even if your information is correct or not. I provided some videos demonstrating that there are a couple different .380 loads that consistently penetrate past 12 inches of ballistics gelatin (with and without denim) and expand reliably. And they were shot from a short barrel.

Thats it, that's all I have done.

I am sure most of us have seen the videos the good captain is referring to. But for those who haven’t the ammo that passed the test is the old Hornady XTP and cartridges loaded with that bullet. We have discussed this load in other threads in the past. Basically it penetrates with some reliability due to its pretty crummy expansion. So just what BBI is saying, generally speaking mouse gun bullets will either penetrate or expand but do not usually do both very well. But they are super easy to carry around, are cheap to buy and people love them. $250 for a Pistol, pocket holster, 1 magazine and a lifetime supply of ammo what’s not to love.