.22LR rifle options for neck/hand issues

[diveski11]

To be specific about my goals: I want to shoot a qualifying score on the Revere's Riders AQT which is at 25 yds. I seriously doubt I will ever attempt Rimfire Sporter competitions. I'm purely a hobby shooter. I'm also working on my AR for shooting out to 400-500 at RR events someday.

I was almost getting there with my S&W M&P 15-22 (cleared the Morgan's 13) and with AR (missed lower end of scoring range by 1 shot) but had a set back physically for a few months this summer from an auto accident (of course during the good weather months grrrrr!!!). I have been told I'm shooting at the limitations of the 15-22 which is cool to hear! Physical limitations include lonnnngggggg history of fibromyalgia complicated with recent Dx of osteoarthritis further complicated by the whiplash. Neck strain propagates through upper back and shoulders after just a few rounds if I'm not in a good position. And I can't get to an outdoor range very often to shoot.

Hubby has a Hogue stock and a bunch of Kidd upgrades on his 10/22. Nothing about that rifle suits my frame. I hate the angle of the "grip" on that stock. It makes my wrist hurt. And I can't see through the scope w/o resting the bottom of my jaw on the top of the buttstock. I need to build up a raised area on my AR stock for a cheek weld. He's 5' 10" so everything suits him. I'm 5'2" on a tall day. With that, my forward sling position is quite close to the mag well on the 15-22 and my AR plus the stock is only 1 or 2 clicks from closed position so pretty short length of pull.

Options for Ruger 10/22 upgrades are totally overwhelming! I'm not in any huge hurry so plenty of time for gathering opinions. It doesn't have to be 10/22.

Edit: I don't want bolt action. RR AQT's are 10 rounds in ~60 seconds, two of the strings involve transition from standing to seated and standing to prone. I need semi-auto!

Thanks in advance!

 

[Ggreen]

So can you still use an AR style?

 

[diveski11]

That seems to be the way I'm leaning since I can place sling mounts where I want, pick out a grip, and use an adjustable stock. Some of the "M4" options look interesting for those reasons. I just ordered the LaRue Tactical RISR and swapped out my STR Magpul stock for a CTR on my AR. Haven't been to the range yet but a mock build up using pipe insulation on the CTR felt much improved vs the STR in prone doing some dry fire. I don't have issues seeing through my 2-7 scope on the 15-22 so that will play into stock/riser selections.

I love how lightweight the 15-22 is. My AR is over 8 lbs so I'm working on a 4-5 lb AR build with a 223 Wylde pencil barrel.

 

[Ggreen]

I highly suggest a tipmann m4 22 then. The model with a free float handguard is all you need aside from picking a stock (mil spec). They recently released 10rd mags that are perfect for prone work.

If you want lighter, the handguard can easily be swapped for any ar15 hg. If you want to go full custom, get the base model. You can ditch the handguard for a carbon taccom or a nice lightweight alg. Put in a tuned trigger, Stock and grip, and an optic and you'll have the perfect Revere's Riders comp gun.

 

[diveski11]

This caught my eye via google: https://www.2a-arms.com/product-p/2a-r22lr16m12blk-1.htm
Discontinued/Out of stock and $1700! A bit salty for plinker but ~4 lbs.

 

[Ggreen]

This caught my eye via google: https://www.2a-arms.com/product-p/2a-r22lr16m12blk-1.htm
Discontinued/Out of stock and $1700! A bit salty for plinker but ~4 lbs.

2a is good to go. I wouldn't spend that money on a 22 though.

Kriss dmk 22 is under 600 and uses 1022 bbls. So you could get one like this then put in a light Tacsol bbl and probably be around 5 lbs

 

[Areoflyer09]

Have you considered building/buying a 22 upper that you can swap? Nordic & Gibbz have fully built uppers. Cmmg and Beyer Barrels if you want to build one.

The Tippmann is a great choice, not every trigger works. I had to modify the hammer shape on the trigger I had in it when I had a Tippmann.

Kriss has a new 22 AR that uses 10/22 barrels. You do have to modify the barrels for them to fit though.

There are some 10/22 options that mimic the AR feel, but they aren’t ARs.

 

[diveski11]

We are not opposed to doing a custom build. What is most important for baseline accuracy - besides the shooter and decent ammo - barrel or other parts? 16.5 or 18? Bull or regular?

Looking at the Kidd site now. Lot of options there but all add up to $1,200 - 1,500 when all said and done if building from scratch. Retirement gift to myself? (shhh my lightweight $$$ AR is supposed to be that

 

[diveski11]

I do have a polymer lower that is collecting dust. Might be ok for a .22 build? Makes me nervous to use it for a .223/5.56 build.

 

[Ggreen]

I do have a polymer lower that is collecting dust. Might be ok for a .22 build? Makes me nervous for .223/5.56 build.

You will break it shooting 3 position. You put a lot on the buffer tube to stabilize.

 

[SmileDocHill]

Diveski, I haven't reviewed all the replies but have you ruled out changing the stock for a reduced width and less restriction on head positions, and possibly a different height scope mount?

 

[Areoflyer09]

We are not opposed to doing a custom build. What is most important for baseline accuracy - besides the shooter and decent ammo - barrel or other parts? 16.5 or 18? Bull or regular?

Looking at the Kidd site now. Lot of options there but all add up to $1,200 - 1,500 when all said and done if building from scratch. Retirement gift to myself? (shhh my lightweight $$$ AR is supposed to be that

With what you are talking about and a custom 10/22 build, I’d probably skip the heavy bull barrel and do a lightweight 16” barrel. Kidd’s heavy barrels really emphasize the heavy part.

A quality barrel and bolt is the best bets for accuracy, after shooter and ammo. Make sure the trigger choice meets your needs.

I highly recommend Kidd parts. The basics of the 10/22 I built for my wife: Kidd 18” heavy bull barrel, Kidd two stage trigger, Titan stock and a TacSol X-Ring receiver. It will shoot 1/4” groups at 50 yards though.

 

[diveski11]

You will break it shooting 3 position. You put a lot on the buffer tube to stabilize.

Thank you! It shall remain in the safe until I dump it online at some point.

 

[diveski11]

Diveski, I haven't reviewed all the replies but have you ruled out changing the stock for a reduced width and less restriction on head positions, and possibly a different height scope mount?

I'm doing that on my AR thanks to the intel gathered Saturday thanks to you and Hop. I swapped the Magpul STR for Dan's CTR that has the less flat profile and have a LaRue RISR on order. Any other cheek riser will impede the charging handle since my stock is so close to the receivers. #shortgirlproblems

Realizing the issues with the AR is the main reason for researching a custom build / heavily upgraded .22 with better precision than the 15-22. Scope mount on the 15-22 seems to work with my head/neck but the imprecision is annoying. I posted 15-22 vs AR sighters from Saturday on FB. AR groupings were dramatically tighter. Granted, I hadn't shot the 15-22 in a long time and had been tighter before that hiatus (cleared Morgan's 13 with it - by a hair on the shingle).

 

[pblanc]

I do not think you will find a semi-auto 22lr rifle that has more options for barrels, triggers, and other parts plus a wider selection of drop-in stock options than the Ruger 10/22.

As far as most stock models of the Ruger 10/22 go, the parts that really scream to be swapped or modified are the trigger and the sights. Improving the function of these may not enhance the inherent accuracy of the rifle, but will almost certainly enhance the shootability, and therefore the practical accuracy for most people. Stocks can make a big difference but there variations in anatomy and personal preference means that what works well for one, may not for another.

As for inherent accuracy of the Ruger 10/22 platform is concerned, I think the general consensus is that the most important component is the barrel. After that, the bolt and then the stock. Most people seem to feel that a .920 diameter straight bull barrel is most likely to offer the highest accuracy because the heavy barrel damps harmonics more effectively than a narrow taper barrel. But the bull barrels, especially those longer than 16.5 inches are quite heavy, and it sounds as if you are looking for lighter weight. There are light weight bull barrels but I have no experience with them. These have a steel core inside a lighter outer sleeve that provides the same .920" straight barrel contour with less weight. There are also heavy taper barrels, that taper like the stock carbine and sporter 10/22 barrels but are thicker throughout their length. I have heard some very positive comments regarding the 17" heavy taper barrel offerings made by Feddersen and Green Mountain.

Regarding barrel and rifle weight, a lighter rifle may not give you better accuracy. If a heavy rifle increases discomfort than it probably would. But many shooters find that forward weight in the rifle reduces their "wobble" especially in the standing position. That is why there are maximum weight limits for rifles used in rimfire sporter or international rifle competition and no minimum weight limits. There are also barrels that have a normal carbine/sporter contour for the portion of the barrel that rests in the stock, but a thicker .920 profile for the portion of the barrel in front of the stock, in order to add forward weight.

Unless the Ruger 10/22 receiver is out of spec, swapping receivers will probably not gain you much accuracy. Apart from a possible improvement in ergonomics, a change in stocks may or may not result in enhanced accuracy. Ruger 10/22s seem to vary a lot in how they respond to such stock modifications as bedding the action, free-floating the barrel, or providing a barrel pressure pad at some location of the stock to support the bottom of the barrel. What works for one particular rifle may not for another. Even small things like varying the tension of the take-down screw can significantly affect the accuracy of some 10/22s, although not always in the same way. Different rifles in different stocks may prefer different screw tensions.

If you really like the ergonomics of the AR platform then a couple of good options have been mentioned. But there is such a huge variety of aftermarket stocks for Ruger 10/22s that I suspect you could find something that offers ergonomics that suit you. There are certainly stocks that have vertical pistol grips and there are many thumb hole stocks that allow a grip like that of an AR pistol grip. There are also more conventional stocks that afford a more vertical shooting hand grip along with adjustable length of pull and comb height. A stock for the 10/22 that I like and that Tony Kidd uses for a lot of his complete rifle offerings is the Magpul Hunter X-22. This stock will accept both standard taper barrels and .920 bull barrels with a reversible barrel tray. It also comes with spacers to adjust the length of pull, and an inexpensive set of comb risers can be purchased if you need more comb height. The stock has M-Lok slots at 3, 6, and 9 o'clock on the hand guard to allow mounting quick release sling swivel sockets at a variety of locations. Another stock with a great deal of adjustability and a relatively vertical grip is the Archangel adjustable precision stock for the Ruger 10/22.

As far as optimizing scope position for your anatomy, that is obviously a very individual matter. I would not expect that a scope mounted for any other person would necessarily be optimally positioned for me. The stock Ruger accessory rail that comes with the 10/22 will often not allow most scopes to be mounted with the ocular lens far enough forward to be usable when shooting prone. Fortunately, there are excellent aftermarket extended Picatinny rails made for the 10/22 by Evolution Gun Works and Volquartsen that will allow much more flexiblity in mounting the scope fore and aft. These will fit the pre-tapped holes on the 10/22 receiver top. Optimizing the height of the scope to suit you can be achieved fairly inexpensively by using rings of different height along with adjustments in comb height as necessary.

 

[diveski11]

Excellent responses already - thanks!

 

[hammerd13]

Just a few random thoughts that might help...

- I suggest a 16.5" (or 16") barrel for your use. At that distance (and at 50 yards for rimfire sporter), there is really no advantage to a longer barrel WHEN USING OPTICS. Iron sights are another story, as a longer barrel gets you an improved sight radius. The only person in history to score perfect on the CMP Rimfire Sporter used a 16.5" barrel.

- Barrel quality has the biggest impact on accuracy (specifically the crown, quality of rifling, and chamber). Bolt (specifically headspace) has the next biggest impact. Another accuracy-improver is to bed the rifle, so that the barrel/receiver interface is locked in place, the receiver is stable, and the business end of the barrel is free-floated. Bedding is really helpful on a traditional 10/22 platform, so that when you take the action out of the stock for cleaning...it goes back in just the same and you don't tweak the barrel angle when tightening the action screw.

- I run a Volquartsen lightweight tension barrel, which gives you light weight with great accuracy. Kidd and Green Mountain are others I'd consider, but pay attention to the weight.

- Whether you buy a complete gun (e.g. Kidd) or build one from a mix of parts, you need to make sure it's RELIABLE. The best way to go from a good score to a horrible score is to have some sort of malfunction during a match/AQT. Be very critical of the parts you select (if building) and test it thoroughly with your chosen ammo. If something isn't working perfectly, change it. Extractors can be particularly finicky when used with certain barrels, as the barrel/extractor cutout shape can be non-ideal for your particular extractor.

- Consider a wooden thumbhole stock with a built in cheek riser. I've got one and really like it (Revolution Tundra - https://www.keystonesportingarmsllc.com/product/tundra/). It keeps your hand in a very natural position and puts my eye right where it needs to be (has cheek riser). 10/22 OEM stocks were meant to be utilized with low iron sights...not a scope. You'll need to address this by adding a riser, choosing a different stock, and get the ideal mounting system for your optic.

...more later, once I have time to think about it!

 

[diveski11]

Just a few random thoughts that might help...

- Consider a wooden thumbhole stock with a built in cheek riser. I've got one and really like it (Revolution Tundra - https://www.keystonesportingarmsllc.com/product/tundra/). It keeps your hand in a very natural position and puts my eye right where it needs to be (has cheek riser). 10/22 OEM stocks were meant to be utilized with low iron sights...not a scope. You'll need to address this by adding a riser, choosing a different stock, and get the ideal mounting system for your optic.

Are there shops around Indy that carry various stocks? I'd want to handle them before deciding. The cant of the trigger side wrist causing pain is an instant go/no-go gate.

I'll add that I am leary of solid stocks being appropriately sized for my frame. I will need to spend some time pestering people in shops. Maybe this will be a good reason to attend NRA-AM in Nashville

 

[gregkl]

As for inherent accuracy of the Ruger 10/22 platform is concerned, I think the general consensus is that the most important component is the barrel. After that, the bolt and then the stock. Most people seem to feel that a .920 diameter straight bull barrel is most likely to offer the highest accuracy because the heavy barrel damps harmonics more effectively than a narrow taper barrel. But the bull barrels, especially those longer than 16.5 inches are quite heavy, and it sounds as if you are looking for lighter weight. There are light weight bull barrels but I have no experience with them. These have a steel core inside a lighter outer sleeve that provides the same .920" straight barrel contour with less weight. There are also heavy taper barrels, that taper like the stock carbine and sporter 10/22 barrels but are thicker throughout their length. I have heard some very positive comments regarding the 17" heavy taper barrel offerings made by Feddersen and Green Mountain.

Regarding barrel and rifle weight, a lighter rifle may not give you better accuracy. If a heavy rifle increases discomfort than it probably would. But many shooters find that forward weight in the rifle reduces their "wobble" especially in the standing position. That is why there are maximum weight limits for rifles used in rimfire sporter or international rifle competition and no minimum weight limits. There are also barrels that have a normal carbine/sporter contour for the portion of the barrel that rests in the stock, but a thicker .920 profile for the portion of the barrel in front of the stock, in order to add forward weight.

I have a 10/22 that is currently in factory configuration with the exception of a Brimstone action job that malfunctions. I'm thinking of replacing it with a Kidd group. I do run optics on it and will stay with optics.

I am also thinking of changing out the barrel since I'm upgrading the trigger group. A lot of people seem to run the heavy bull barrels but I was looking at the Feddersen taper barrel.

Doe anyone have any experience with one? Are they good to go?

I then would consider bedding it and the receiver if it is really worth doing to the factory stock.

Interested in this thread and what all it will teach me.

 

[pblanc]

I spent some time soliciting opinions and reviewing the internet for information regarding heavy taper barrels. KID is usually a safe bet, and they make one in a 20 inch length but that was longer and heavier than I wanted.

Feddersen and Green Mountain both make a 17" heavy taper barrel. Feddersen only offers a blued steel barrel and polishing is extra. Green Mountain makes 17" heavy tapers in both blued steel and stainless polished. Both have similar profiles and weights. I believe that Green Mountain may have made a longer heavy taper barrel in the past. I read very positive reviews about both the Feddersen and Green Mountain barrels.

I wound up buying a stainless Green Mountain 17" heavy taper barrel and just finished mounting it on a synthetic Ruger carbine/sporter stock but have not shot it yet. A small amount of relieving of the barrel channel of the stock was required to fit it but it was straightforward. Once I have a chance to shoot it I will post some accuracy information. It looks good and I prefer the balance of the rifle with the heavy taper barrel to that of the regular stock carbine taper barrel.