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You won’t regret the Kidd trigger group. Worth every penny.
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.22LR rifle options for neck/hand issues
- Thread starter diveski11
- Start date
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You won’t regret the Kidd trigger group. Worth every penny.
I was happy with just a Volq hammer swap.
Did a GM heavy taper in a Titan stock.
Was still a heavy gun, w vertical grip was nice for bench.
However it was too heavy and the ergo not ideal......for a hunting rifle (for me).
Parted it out.
Just swapped the skinny swivel studs on my CZ455 to reg Uncle Mikes. Have decided
to run it as my hunter. Taking my beater fingergroove to the Kokomo show.
Am officially out of the 10/22 game.
The old sporters look and feel great but I think the wood too thin at the back for a GM heavy taper 19" and that bbl just too heavy.
Something between the HT and reg sporter would proly be right.
Not gonna mess with it any more.
Did a GM heavy taper in a Titan stock.
Was still a heavy gun, w vertical grip was nice for bench.
However it was too heavy and the ergo not ideal......for a hunting rifle (for me).
Parted it out.
Just swapped the skinny swivel studs on my CZ455 to reg Uncle Mikes. Have decided
to run it as my hunter. Taking my beater fingergroove to the Kokomo show.
Am officially out of the 10/22 game.
The old sporters look and feel great but I think the wood too thin at the back for a GM heavy taper 19" and that bbl just too heavy.
Something between the HT and reg sporter would proly be right.
Not gonna mess with it any more.
Everyone is going backwards. Lightweight build lol. Tacsol barrels are more than capable of sweeping a Revere's course and half the weight of the heavy barrels.
A Tacsol xring reciever and barrel will get you what you want. You have every option you could dream of in stocks as it's basically a 1022. I don't think there is a lighter combination in a 1022 that will clean RR events.
In an AR 1522 I think the lightest your going to get is a kriss dmk. You can replace the barrel with a light weight option and use the lightest stock and buffer tube available.
A more exotic option would be to buy a base tipmann, drop in an elftman trigger, install a carbon handguard, flute the barrel, cut the barrel down to 13.7 and have a muzzle device welded on top get it to 16. Lightweight stock and tube. That would basically put you at or below the 2A's weight. Probably the same money as well lol.
A Tacsol xring reciever and barrel will get you what you want. You have every option you could dream of in stocks as it's basically a 1022. I don't think there is a lighter combination in a 1022 that will clean RR events.
In an AR 1522 I think the lightest your going to get is a kriss dmk. You can replace the barrel with a light weight option and use the lightest stock and buffer tube available.
A more exotic option would be to buy a base tipmann, drop in an elftman trigger, install a carbon handguard, flute the barrel, cut the barrel down to 13.7 and have a muzzle device welded on top get it to 16. Lightweight stock and tube. That would basically put you at or below the 2A's weight. Probably the same money as well lol.
If you really like the ergos of the 15-22 then you could buy a VQ barrel. I'm hearing they shoot VERY well. I'd actually love to see how this barrel does:
https://volquartsen.com/inventory_configurations/1379
If you want to go the 10/22 route, I have an old Magnum Research stock at home you can try. I don't have the gun anymore but might be able to borrow it from it's current owner. It's now wearing a Victor Titan stock. That's another gun you should consider especially if you have the NRA instructor certificate (they offer us a hell of a discount).
https://shopkahrfirearmsgroup.com/f...e-rifle-ultra-barrel-with-threaded-muzzle.asp
https://volquartsen.com/inventory_configurations/1379
If you want to go the 10/22 route, I have an old Magnum Research stock at home you can try. I don't have the gun anymore but might be able to borrow it from it's current owner. It's now wearing a Victor Titan stock. That's another gun you should consider especially if you have the NRA instructor certificate (they offer us a hell of a discount).
https://shopkahrfirearmsgroup.com/f...e-rifle-ultra-barrel-with-threaded-muzzle.asp
I didn't realize you could modify the M&P 15-22. I like weight and comfort just not the scatter.
New stock will be determined by what doesn't hurt my neck and/or wrist while seeing through the scope properly. That's why I'm leaning towards adjustable stock, comb, grip options. Can't dump $$$ into something that's not going to work for me. I need to go to Shot Show as the Central Indiana Spokesperson for CMAB (creaking middle aged broads)
Don't have NRA creds but maybe by end of 2020?
I'm resisting the urge to buy that barrel for my daughter's 15-22. She loves it as is. I need to leave it alone. 
I vowed if I ever get another 22LR AR15 variant, that it would be the Tippmann mentioned up thread. Scott has one. I'm surprised he didn't bring it to the RR instructor Christmas shoot last Saturday.
I vowed if I ever get another 22LR AR15 variant, that it would be the Tippmann mentioned up thread. Scott has one. I'm surprised he didn't bring it to the RR instructor Christmas shoot last Saturday.
Found this on rimfirecentral via google: "15-22 are about 4MOA rifes" and "The accuracy issue with the MP15-22 is not the quality of the barrel. It is very good. The problem is with the polymer receiver and how the barrel attaches to the receiver. I have been able to get great accuracy out of the gun by attaching a solid picatinny riser that is attached to the handguard and the receiver which bridges the flexing that happens between the barrel and the receiver." Which I doubt I can do since I have a scope mounted.
And then I found this: https://volquartsen.com/howto/install_mp_15_22_barrel (Sorry Hop, I didn't click on your link right away but we found same site).
https://volquartsen.com/inventory_configurations/1379
$300 for just the barrel putting it at a $650 gun that might still be 4 MOA at best due to the rail vs receiver comment? Enough others must be doing it for VQ to invest in stocking that barrel.
I think trying to upgrade the 15-22 is barking up the wrong tree. I snagged the 15-22 for $180. It has served me well as "my first rifle" (I got a late start in this hobby).
And then I found this: https://volquartsen.com/howto/install_mp_15_22_barrel (Sorry Hop, I didn't click on your link right away but we found same site).
https://volquartsen.com/inventory_configurations/1379
$300 for just the barrel putting it at a $650 gun that might still be 4 MOA at best due to the rail vs receiver comment? Enough others must be doing it for VQ to invest in stocking that barrel.
I think trying to upgrade the 15-22 is barking up the wrong tree. I snagged the 15-22 for $180. It has served me well as "my first rifle" (I got a late start in this hobby).
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diveski11,
As it relates to the M&P 15-22, that's been my experience...4MOA at best. The issue is, exactly as stated in our quote, that the polymer receiver flexes. I'm certain the Volquartsen barrel is better and would improve things, but it doesn't fix the underlying problem.
I can, for example, shoot my 15-22 from bags (with no tension on handguard) and I might get 1.5moa. When I apply tension to my sling, it pulls all my shots low left...seemingly randomly. I'd be better off not using a sling at all. So disappointing, as I love the rifle otherwise. It always runs reliably, just horrid accuracy.
As it relates to the M&P 15-22, that's been my experience...4MOA at best. The issue is, exactly as stated in our quote, that the polymer receiver flexes. I'm certain the Volquartsen barrel is better and would improve things, but it doesn't fix the underlying problem.
I can, for example, shoot my 15-22 from bags (with no tension on handguard) and I might get 1.5moa. When I apply tension to my sling, it pulls all my shots low left...seemingly randomly. I'd be better off not using a sling at all. So disappointing, as I love the rifle otherwise. It always runs reliably, just horrid accuracy.
Last edited:
I'm resisting the urge to buy that barrel for my daughter's 15-22. She loves it as is. I need to leave it alone.
I vowed if I ever get another 22LR AR15 variant, that it would be the Tippmann mentioned up thread. Scott has one. I'm surprised he didn't bring it to the RR instructor Christmas shoot last Saturday.
Then we need to have a 22LR show and tell gathering! Having others who are really good shooters give their feedback on my gear is very helpful to me as a newbie.
$300 barrel on a $180 rifle is difficult for even me to justify. If the other affordable avenues are dead end then might give it a go..... Hubby keeps harping that he is next up for a new gun but he doesn't seem to really need one like I do
He has way more than I have already (like 1 or 2).Diveski11,
I know that we are all throwing out a bunch of info here, probably a little overwhelming. Sorry about that, but that won't stop me from continuing!
As it relates to the 10-22 platform, the devil is in the details:
- traditional barrel-to-receiver connection is a slip-fit. This, by definition, means there is slop. Some barrel manufacturers make the portion of the barrel that fits into the receiver a bit oversized. This creates a press-fit, where you typically need to heat the receiver and/or freeze the barrel to get things to go together. This does help remove the slop that can impact your accuracy (especially over time and temperatures).
- Kidd has solved this issue by offering the Supergrade system. It takes all the slop out of the barrel/receiver interface.
- Since your scope is mounted to the receiver and the barrel can potentially move around (especially if things aren't bedded or you aren't using a press-fit barrel or you aren't using something similar to the Kidd Supergrade system) your poi could potentially change over time
- I like wood stocks because they're easier to bed and easier to make clearance for the barrel (i.e. free-float). The bedding compound adheres well to wood.
- In addition to bedding, I'm a big fan of using a metal (usually aluminum) pillar. This prevents the wood stock from compressing when you tighten the action screw and firmly supports the front end of the receiver.
- Example of pillar:
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- Example of cheek riser:
[/URL][/IMG]
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I know that we are all throwing out a bunch of info here, probably a little overwhelming. Sorry about that, but that won't stop me from continuing!
As it relates to the 10-22 platform, the devil is in the details:
- traditional barrel-to-receiver connection is a slip-fit. This, by definition, means there is slop. Some barrel manufacturers make the portion of the barrel that fits into the receiver a bit oversized. This creates a press-fit, where you typically need to heat the receiver and/or freeze the barrel to get things to go together. This does help remove the slop that can impact your accuracy (especially over time and temperatures).
- Kidd has solved this issue by offering the Supergrade system. It takes all the slop out of the barrel/receiver interface.
- Since your scope is mounted to the receiver and the barrel can potentially move around (especially if things aren't bedded or you aren't using a press-fit barrel or you aren't using something similar to the Kidd Supergrade system) your poi could potentially change over time
- I like wood stocks because they're easier to bed and easier to make clearance for the barrel (i.e. free-float). The bedding compound adheres well to wood.
- In addition to bedding, I'm a big fan of using a metal (usually aluminum) pillar. This prevents the wood stock from compressing when you tighten the action screw and firmly supports the front end of the receiver.
- Example of pillar:
- Example of cheek riser:
Then we need to have a 22LR show and tell gathering! Having others who are really good shooters give their feedback on my gear is very helpful to me as a newbie.
$300 barrel on a $180 rifle is difficult for even me to justify. If the other affordable avenues are dead end then might give it a go..... Hubby keeps harping that he is next up for a new gun but he doesn't seem to really need one like I do
It would be fun to have an all rimfire Revere's Riders with some demo/show and tell time
https://cz-usa.com/product/cz-512-22-lr-semi-automatic5-rd-mag/
6# and as accurate as their bolt models.
Available with more vertical grip:
https://cz-usa.com/product/cz-512-tactical/
6# and as accurate as their bolt models.
Available with more vertical grip:
https://cz-usa.com/product/cz-512-tactical/
10 shot group @ 25 yards prone, sling only out of the 10/22 with Kidd barrel, two stage match trigger, bolt & using hot melt glue bedding in a KKC stock.
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
I’m interested in your bedding process. How and where you added bedding.
Nice groups!
Gregkl,
I know your question wasn't directed towards me, but here's the way I bed my 10/22s. Basically you want to support the receiver-to-barrel interface and float the remaining portion of the barrel. Hopefully Hop shows us his handywork with hot melt glue!
https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=250931
One option for a pillar:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ruger-10-2...hash=item4ab9a3dde3:m:mAFB2xu-agcBhORojTcEotA
So 1st off... I do not have this gun or any guns anymore. They were all lost in a tragic boating accident ~6 months prior to filing for divorce.
Sorry for the slight thread derailment Diveski.
The KKC stock fitment was very loose. Before trying something more permanent, I thought, hot melt glue. Why not?
I removed the action and taped up all the big holes & sprayed it down with cooking spray (you'll want to test your holt melt glue on a cooking oil sprayed metal surface before you try this). I filled all the small nooks and crannies in the stock with glue 1st then reassembled and squeezed in as much hot melt glue as possible. I only let the glue flow ~1" forward of the receiver/barrel v-block. Let it harden then cut off the excess and tried to disassemble. Wow, was it hard to get it back out of the stock! I trimmed a few spots to make assembly/disassembly a little easier and it's held up much better than I had expected. I even let it sit out in the sun and have had no problems.
Low temp thermoplastic glue melts ~250*. I have had such good luck with this that I might try a high temp thermoplastic ~375*.
Sorry for the slight thread derailment Diveski.
The KKC stock fitment was very loose. Before trying something more permanent, I thought, hot melt glue. Why not?
I removed the action and taped up all the big holes & sprayed it down with cooking spray (you'll want to test your holt melt glue on a cooking oil sprayed metal surface before you try this). I filled all the small nooks and crannies in the stock with glue 1st then reassembled and squeezed in as much hot melt glue as possible. I only let the glue flow ~1" forward of the receiver/barrel v-block. Let it harden then cut off the excess and tried to disassemble. Wow, was it hard to get it back out of the stock! I trimmed a few spots to make assembly/disassembly a little easier and it's held up much better than I had expected. I even let it sit out in the sun and have had no problems.
Low temp thermoplastic glue melts ~250*. I have had such good luck with this that I might try a high temp thermoplastic ~375*.
We can work on that idea! I'll start a new thread on the RR section.
It sounds as if a 10/22 rabbit hole has opened up beneath the feet of the OP here. I feel partially responsible since I was one who mentioned it but since I have also messed around with 10/22s a fair bit, I am going to throw out a few points.
First off, if you decide to go the Ruger 10/22 route, you do not need some tricked out rifle with a bull barrel and two stage trigger to qualify on the RR 25 meter AQT. Bone stock Ruger 10/22s vary in accuracy just as all barrels do, but most are fully capable of shooting one inch groups at 25 meters with no work. In fact, many will shoot one inch groups at 50 yards if you take the time to find out what ammunition your particular barrel prefers, which can be very different for two different rifles of the same make and model.
22lr rimfire ammunition varies considerably with regards to projectile diameter, rim thickness, consistency of powder charge, etc. More expensive ammunition generally buys better accuracy, but not always. Match quality ammunition is made to fit tight match chambers and might not give the best accuracy in a more generous semi-automatic chamber. More expensive ammo will generally have less variation in powder charge, case rim thickness, projectile diameter, and less tendency for bullet run-out (where the axis of the projectile is not quite in line with the axis of the cartridge case). As for stock Ruger 10/22s, many owners get good results with CCI mini-mags or CCI standard velocity but any individual rifle might be different. If you are serious about improving accuracy in any 22lr rifle, you need to buy at least a half dozen or more varieties of ammo with a good reputation and test them all in your individual rifle.
The gains from accuracy that might be achieved with more esoteric measures such as bedding, pillars, pressure pads, and barrel free-floating are not consistent with the Ruger 10/22. I am not saying that some have not seen significant gains in accuracy with stock bedding and barrel free-floating, but others doing the same thing have not. A well done stock bedding job will probably never hurt accuracy, but it doesn't always result in a significant gain in accuracy either. It probably depends on how well the action fit the stock to begin with. As for free-floating the barrel, some have actually seen a decrease in accuracy. Part of the problem is the press-fit/slip-fit design of the Ruger 10/22 barrel that was touched on. The portion of the barrel that fits into the front part of the receiver (the tenon) is steel, obviously. But the receiver is aluminum. A barrel that is supported only by the tenon and V-block can be subject to "barrel droop" resulting from the gradual deformation of the softer, weaker aluminum receiver. This is more likely to be a problem with heavy bull barrels. Many 10/22 owners have found that a barrel that is floated except for some forward pressure support from the stock itself or an added pad offers the best accuracy. But the optimal position for the pressure pad also varies from rifle to rifle.
The point I am trying to make is that so far as the Ruger 10/22 is concerned, there is no magic formula for optimal accuracy that works with all rifles. The individuals who spend lots of time and money experimenting with various types of bedding, pressure pad location, minute changes in take-down screw tension, etc, are often people who are trying to get a rifle that consistently shoots .5" diameter groups at 50 yards to one that will shoot .3" diameter groups at 50 yards, and that degree of accuracy is something that you might not need or care to invest a lot of time and money in. And it is not required for Revere's Riders AQTs.
An easy way to improve the accuracy of any stock Ruger 10/22 that I did not see mentioned, is to take the barreled action out of the stock and send it off to Randy Steele at Connecticut Precision Chambering. He will recut the chamber and crown the barrel, work the bolt face to the correct head space, replace the extractor with a tooled steel version, pin the firing pin to reduce the tendency for fliers, and do a trigger job. Or any portion of the above. Randy can also thread the barrel tenon and tap the receiver of a stock 10/22 to eliminate the press-fit barrel connection. I am fairly comfortable saying that any stock Ruger 10/22 that has undergone the full modification by Randy would certainly have sufficient accuracy for the purposes of the RR AQT.
First off, if you decide to go the Ruger 10/22 route, you do not need some tricked out rifle with a bull barrel and two stage trigger to qualify on the RR 25 meter AQT. Bone stock Ruger 10/22s vary in accuracy just as all barrels do, but most are fully capable of shooting one inch groups at 25 meters with no work. In fact, many will shoot one inch groups at 50 yards if you take the time to find out what ammunition your particular barrel prefers, which can be very different for two different rifles of the same make and model.
22lr rimfire ammunition varies considerably with regards to projectile diameter, rim thickness, consistency of powder charge, etc. More expensive ammunition generally buys better accuracy, but not always. Match quality ammunition is made to fit tight match chambers and might not give the best accuracy in a more generous semi-automatic chamber. More expensive ammo will generally have less variation in powder charge, case rim thickness, projectile diameter, and less tendency for bullet run-out (where the axis of the projectile is not quite in line with the axis of the cartridge case). As for stock Ruger 10/22s, many owners get good results with CCI mini-mags or CCI standard velocity but any individual rifle might be different. If you are serious about improving accuracy in any 22lr rifle, you need to buy at least a half dozen or more varieties of ammo with a good reputation and test them all in your individual rifle.
The gains from accuracy that might be achieved with more esoteric measures such as bedding, pillars, pressure pads, and barrel free-floating are not consistent with the Ruger 10/22. I am not saying that some have not seen significant gains in accuracy with stock bedding and barrel free-floating, but others doing the same thing have not. A well done stock bedding job will probably never hurt accuracy, but it doesn't always result in a significant gain in accuracy either. It probably depends on how well the action fit the stock to begin with. As for free-floating the barrel, some have actually seen a decrease in accuracy. Part of the problem is the press-fit/slip-fit design of the Ruger 10/22 barrel that was touched on. The portion of the barrel that fits into the front part of the receiver (the tenon) is steel, obviously. But the receiver is aluminum. A barrel that is supported only by the tenon and V-block can be subject to "barrel droop" resulting from the gradual deformation of the softer, weaker aluminum receiver. This is more likely to be a problem with heavy bull barrels. Many 10/22 owners have found that a barrel that is floated except for some forward pressure support from the stock itself or an added pad offers the best accuracy. But the optimal position for the pressure pad also varies from rifle to rifle.
The point I am trying to make is that so far as the Ruger 10/22 is concerned, there is no magic formula for optimal accuracy that works with all rifles. The individuals who spend lots of time and money experimenting with various types of bedding, pressure pad location, minute changes in take-down screw tension, etc, are often people who are trying to get a rifle that consistently shoots .5" diameter groups at 50 yards to one that will shoot .3" diameter groups at 50 yards, and that degree of accuracy is something that you might not need or care to invest a lot of time and money in. And it is not required for Revere's Riders AQTs.
An easy way to improve the accuracy of any stock Ruger 10/22 that I did not see mentioned, is to take the barreled action out of the stock and send it off to Randy Steele at Connecticut Precision Chambering. He will recut the chamber and crown the barrel, work the bolt face to the correct head space, replace the extractor with a tooled steel version, pin the firing pin to reduce the tendency for fliers, and do a trigger job. Or any portion of the above. Randy can also thread the barrel tenon and tap the receiver of a stock 10/22 to eliminate the press-fit barrel connection. I am fairly comfortable saying that any stock Ruger 10/22 that has undergone the full modification by Randy would certainly have sufficient accuracy for the purposes of the RR AQT.
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