.22LR rifle options for neck/hand issues

[Hookeye]

Ive owned old walnut carbines in the past, one new as a kid. Not my fave. Dont care for crescent buttplates on most rifles that wear em.

Saw a very nicely figured DSP not long ago, but there was a pretty large gap around the receiver.
Noticeable. Ruger has been getting sloppy

 

[diveski11]

Hubby gave green light to do a full custom build. (He loves doing YouTube research!) I seriously doubt that's a reasonable spend for my abilities and limited range time. I'm thinking about 1/2 of that (~$600-700) will be more than adequate.

~$200 for the 10/22
~$200 for a good stock

What "nickel and dime" updates/upgrades should consume the last $200-300?
Trigger Job kit $110
Extractor $11
Bolt buffer $6
Firing pin $24
Bolt handle charging assembly $30
Mag release $35
Auto bolt release $11
QD cups $40

What might I be missing?

 

[gopher]

22lr rimfire ammunition varies considerably with regards to projectile diameter, rim thickness, consistency of powder charge, etc. More expensive ammunition generally buys better accuracy, but not always. Match quality ammunition is made to fit tight match chambers and might not give the best accuracy in a more generous semi-automatic chamber. More expensive ammo will generally have less variation in powder charge, case rim thickness, projectile diameter, and less tendency for bullet run-out (where the axis of the projectile is not quite in line with the axis of the cartridge case). As for stock Ruger 10/22s, many owners get good results with CCI mini-mags or CCI standard velocity but any individual rifle might be different. If you are serious about improving accuracy in any 22lr rifle, you need to buy at least a half dozen or more varieties of ammo with a good reputation and test them all in your individual rifle.

This is good advice! The accuracy of most rifles will vary with the ammunition used due to both the quality of the ammunition as pblanc points out above but also just due to the tendency of any given rifle barrel to prefer a specific bullet velocity, bullet contour (how the bullet engages the rifling), how well the bullet stabilizes with the barrel's twist rate, etc.

If you're REALLY serious about accuracy, get a bunch of .22LR loads and do some back-to-back testing at the range. You will want to let the barrel cool between testing different ammunition (a hot/warm barrel is generally less accurate). You may need to shoot out to a distance greater than 25 yards to really get a good idea of what ammo is shooting well and which isn't (25 yard groups can be quite small and the differences in group size difficult to measure).

You will want to try ammunition that varies in the following specifics:

• bullet weight
• bullet velocity (standard vs. high velocity)
• bullet type (round nose vs. hollow point)
• bullet jacket (for .22LR this boils down to bare lead vs. copper "washed"/plated bullets)
• manufacturers

I haven't done that with my 10/22 (I have done this with my "long range" AR-15 at the CMP Talladega Marksmanship Park which makes it super easy as their electronic targets display your hits right next to your shooting position!), but I have settled on a couple of loads that my particular 10/22 (a "deluxe sporter" model; I detest the barrel band on the "carbine" model) likes: CCI Mini-Mags and CCI Standard Velocity along with Fiocchi 40gr high velocity (22FFHVCRN) and Fiocchi 40gr standard velocity (22FLRN). The Fiocchi is VERY reasonably priced ammunition that I have found gives generally good results, especially so considering the price. I've found that my rifle HATES Aguila (and I'm not too fond of it either since in my experience Aguila rimfire ammo suffers from excessive misfires).

One other thing to consider is whether you want accuracy beyond 25 yards (obviously, for RR AQTs this makes no difference). For .22LR, the "high velocity" ammunition will be supersonic out to about 50 yards or so at which point it goes through the "sound barrier". After the transition from supersonic to subsonic, the bullet is often destabilized to a smaller or larger extent. For this reason, if you're shooting beyond 50 yards and want the best possible accuracy, you will want to use "standard velocity" ammunition that will be subsonic the entire time (i.e., there will be no crossing of the sound barrier to destabilize the bullet). Many people say that standard velocity ammunition is inherently more accurate even when high velocity ammunition stays supersonic (I haven't done any testing of that as I suspect I can't shoot a tight enough group that it makes a difference anyway).

In any case, there is a reason Ruger sells TONS of 10/22s: they are decently accurate, relatively inexpensive and HIGHLY customizable. I would ditch the M&P 15-22 and get a 10/22 (or 10/22 clone; you can make a 10/22 that consists of NO Ruger parts at all). The choice in stocks, receivers, barrels, triggers, etc. for 10/22s is enormous and I would be surprised if you can't find something to fit your needs/budget.

 

[Hookeye]

My 1022 w Green Mountain bbl did not like CCI minimag, standard V or Blazer. It didnt like a couple PMC match ammo types from a ways back. fed ans Win sucked.....HV reg and hollowpoint.

It did .4" at 50 yards w SK rifle match though.

So maybe 10 different ammo types and 3 of them match ammo and it liked ONE.

My old fingergroove from '67 did .75" at 50 yards w only a Volq hammer swap and 6x scope......w CCI blazer. I thought it fine.

'70 fingergroove likes nothing. But it had big time tip pressure and some from side. Cleaned that up and have not tested it since.

My pos cz455 aint broke in yet and seems to do decent w the CCI Blazer. Hunting gun. Burn some more through it and teat at 50. It too likes SK match

 

[Areoflyer09]

Hubby gave green light to do a full custom build. (He loves doing YouTube research!) I seriously doubt that's a reasonable spend for my abilities and limited range time. I'm thinking about 1/2 of that (~$600-700) will be more than adequate.

~$200 for the 10/22
~$200 for a good stock

What "nickel and dime" updates/upgrades should consume the last $200-300?
Trigger Job kit $110
Extractor $11
Bolt buffer $6
Firing pin $24
Bolt handle charging assembly $30
Mag release $35
Auto bolt release $11
QD cups $40

What might I be missing?

With a green light for a custom build, I’d do receiver, bolt, barrel and trigger (even if you buy a factory trigger and drop the DIY kit in it) from Kidd.

 

[diveski11]

With a green light for a custom build, I’d do receiver, bolt, barrel and trigger (even if you buy a factory trigger and drop the DIY kit in it) from Kidd.

I stumbled across your blue beauty earlier today in your Rimfire Madness thread. What was your ballpark cost for that?

 

[gopher]

Hubby gave green light to do a full custom build. (He loves doing YouTube research!) I seriously doubt that's a reasonable spend for my abilities and limited range time. I'm thinking about 1/2 of that (~$600-700) will be more than adequate.

~$200 for the 10/22
~$200 for a good stock

What "nickel and dime" updates/upgrades should consume the last $200-300?
Trigger Job kit $110
Extractor $11
Bolt buffer $6
Firing pin $24
Bolt handle charging assembly $30
Mag release $35
Auto bolt release $11
QD cups $40

What might I be missing?

I would suggest going to KIDD for pretty much all of the above:

• skip the trigger job and just get the KIDD single stage trigger ($200, more money but it is a VERY nice trigger)
  • includes the mag release and auto bolt release
  • plus it is a "drop-in" trigger (no taking apart the stock trigger and swapping in/out parts)
  • it is contained in an aluminum housing compared to the plastic housing of the recent Ruger stock and BX triggers (older stock 10/22 triggers used an aluminum housing as well)
  • I prefer the "extended" mag release lever over the "sportsman" release lever
  • my KIDD single stage has a 2.5lb pull weight (you can specify the pull weight you want when ordering and the trigger is user-adjustable from 1.5 to 5lb pull weight; a "trigger job" won't give you adjustable pull weight)
  • remember that CMP specifies a 3lb trigger pull weight if you think you might do the Rimfire Sporter thing.
• KIDD extractor ($11, I have this on my rifle but I'm not sure that it is NECESSARY; however, for $11 you might as well...)
• KIDD bolt buffer ($6; again, not NECESSARY but it smooths out the recoil impulse somewhat)
• KIDD firing pin ($24; would skip this if you're looking to save a few $)
• KIDD bolt handle, guide rod and spring ($30; I like the version with the Viton rubber ring around it as it gives a little more "traction" to the charging handle; Viton is a VERY durable rubber compound used in high vacuum seals and probably other stuff as well; I will point out that the KIDD recoil spring is NOT captive to the guide rod which allows you to switch out the recoil spring and "tune" the action but makes it a little harder to install the bolt handle/guide rod/spring assembly in the receiver and get the bolt installed)
• KIDD receiver pins ($6; the stock Ruger receiver pins are notoriously sloppy; having tighter fitting receiver pins will usually get rid of that slop)

All of the above would total ~$270 and is easily installed on your own (no need for a gunsmith; hell, the 10/22 is so simple there isn't much that you really need a gunsmith for anyway unless you're "truing" the action or some such). The above list of parts is pretty much what went into my Deluxe Sporter 10/22 that I use at RR events.

You can then use the remainder of your budget for:

• the 10/22:
  • the "carbine" model is often cheapest but has the crummy stock with the barrel band; but you are going to throw the stock out anyway so who cares...
  • the "deluxe sporter" is harder to find but has a slightly heavier barrel contour with a better stock that you can probably resell once you put the action in a new stock
  • the "target lite" has the heavy target barrel, but if you go that route you're already spending ~$600 for the stock rifle
  • finally, there is the "competition" which is not really interesting for you unless you look at the 31147 model with the Green Mountain barrel and stock at ~$800; if you get that, I would keep the rifle stock with the possible exception of adding the KIDD trigger
• if you intend to mount a scope, you will need an extended rail (no need to get a rail with "built-in MOA" unless you plan to go out to 150+ yards):
  • Volquartsen ($50)
  • EGW ($40)
  • KIDD ($33)
  • probably others as well...I believe I have the EGW, but any extended rail should do the job just fine (make sure you use blue Locktite on the rail mounting screws and the scope rings; be CAREFUL with the extended rail that you don't get Locktite going through into the interior of the receiver, wipe off any excess immediately before it has a chance to dry)
• if you intend to mount a scope, you will need rings appropriate for the scope; you can't really choose those until you choose your scope. In general, you want the scope mounted as low as possible to your rifle barrel (IMO; your neck issues may dictate otherwise). You'll need to measure the necessary ring height to get the objective bell of the scope just above your barrel (the ocular bell is usually not an issue although it doesn't hurt to check that as well if your scope has a smaller objective diameter). For a rimfire rifle, I don't know that rings are hugely important and will likely be dictated more by what ring height and ring diameter you need than anything else (it can take some extended shopping to find the right rings for a given application).
• a stock that suits you

My $0.02...

 

[Areoflyer09]

I stumbled across your blue beauty earlier today in your Rimfire Madness thread. What was your ballpark cost for that?

Did it still have the blue barrel on it? If so, it would have been roughly all in around 1,000.

Currently give or take, ~1300.
Current Build:
Tactical Solutions X-Ring Receiver
Kidd 18” Diamond fluted barrel
Kidd 2 stage trigger
Victor Titan Stock
Hawke Vantage 3-9 Optic

I don’t think you’d be happy with copying that exact build for your purposes, it weighs like 9lbs right now.

While I recommend most just go with Kidd parts when they do full builds. I started with two factory X-rings when I built my 10/22s. I’ve come to really like the dual spring system they use, but they aren’t the cheapest receivers in the market.

 

[gregkl]

Bruce, thanks for a lot of good advice.

I may have a lot of Aguila that I will be selling and/or donating if they won't run in the Feddersen barrel I'm thinking of picking up for my 10/22.

I'm going to go the Kidd route as you have suggested. I have a Brimstone job in mine now and it malfunctions a lot so I just don't trust it anymore.

I'll make an attempt to shape a factory wood stock into what I want, but if it doesn't work out, I'll probably pick up a Boyds Rimfire Hunter. I'm kinda traditional so the tactical and thumbhole stocks don't do for me.

I'm glad diveski11 started this thread! Has me much more interested in dialing in my .22.

 

[diveski11]

This looks interesting: https://ruger.com/products/1022TargetLite/models.html
Doesn't have adjustable comb but there are add-on products if that is necessary. Won't know until I have a scope on it.
Trigger reach looks reasonable for small hands and the vertical grip is what I tend to like with the wrist pain.

 

[Ggreen]

This looks interesting: https://ruger.com/products/1022TargetLite/models.html
Doesn't have adjustable comb but there are add-on products if that is necessary. Won't know until I have a scope on it.
Trigger reach looks reasonable for small hands and the vertical grip is what I tend to like with the wrist pain.

My step dad has one of these
https://ruger.com/micros/customShop/31120.html

They can be had for low 600. It's a sick rifle or of the box

 

[pblanc]

Bruce, thanks for a lot of good advice.

I may have a lot of Aguila that I will be selling and/or donating if they won't run in the Feddersen barrel I'm thinking of picking up for my 10/22.

I'm going to go the Kidd route as you have suggested. I have a Brimstone job in mine now and it malfunctions a lot so I just don't trust it anymore.

I'll make an attempt to shape a factory wood stock into what I want, but if it doesn't work out, I'll probably pick up a Boyds Rimfire Hunter. I'm kinda traditional so the tactical and thumbhole stocks don't do for me.

I'm glad diveski11 started this thread! Has me much more interested in dialing in my .22.

Don't give up on the Aguila ammunition until you try it. I have shot a lot of Aguila Super Extra high velocity 40 grain round nose and had very good results with it in three different 10/22s with 18.5" taper barrels. I have had no reliability issues. Accuracy is very nearly as good as with CCI Standard Velocity. I know of others who have had good results with Aguila Super Extra standard velocity 40 grain and with Aquila 40 grain Pistol Match.

Did you send that trigger group back to Brimstone? I have heard that their customer support is excellent. I know others who had trouble with their Brimstone modified trigger assemblies, sent them back, and never had any more trouble.

 

[gregkl]

Don't give up on the Aguila ammunition until you try it. I have shot a lot of Aguila Super Extra high velocity 40 grain round nose and had very good results with it in three different 10/22s with 18.5" taper barrels. I have had no reliability issues. Accuracy is very nearly as good as with CCI Standard Velocity. I know of others who have had good results with Aguila Super Extra standard velocity 40 grain and with Aquila 40 grain Pistol Match.

Did you send that trigger group back to Brimstone? I have heard that their customer support is excellent. I know others who had trouble with their Brimstone modified trigger assemblies, sent them back, and never had any more trouble.

Thanks! That is the exact round I purchased.

I didn't send it back. I had trouble early on and talked to them a couple times and exchanged some e-mails. They had a design flaw that allowed the ejector to "walk" on the pin towards the center of the pin. When it did that, it interferes with the magazine release plunger and I can't drop the mag. They said to polish the hold back plate which would do nothing. I ended up putting a nylon spacer on the pin to hold the everything to the side of the group. Worked fine.

They were very slow in responding to me and when I told them of the repair, they went dead silent.

I got tired of them not being responsive and giving me guidance that wasn't going to solve my issue.

 

[pblanc]

This looks interesting: https://ruger.com/products/1022TargetLite/models.html
Doesn't have adjustable comb but there are add-on products if that is necessary. Won't know until I have a scope on it.
Trigger reach looks reasonable for small hands and the vertical grip is what I tend to like with the wrist pain.

If shooting a rifle with a conventional stock hurts your hand when you try to wrap your thumb over and around the stock just in front of the comb, try just resting your shooting thumb along side the rifle stock on the shooting hand side. Many good target shooters do this and feel it improves their trigger control.

If you still have trouble reaching the trigger because the grip area of the stock is too far behind the trigger, try modifying a stock in a non-destructive way using some dense foam and some "Vet wrap" style tape such as Coban. A dense foam like minicell can be carved with knives and shaped with Surform tools and sandpaper into just about anything you need. Secure some to the front part of the grip area with tape. Experimenting like this might allow you to determine just what type of grip orientation and trigger reach is going to work best for you.

 

[Hookeye]

I hate laying my thumb to the side.
However, on the Victor Titan 10/22 stock it seems as if that's what they want you to do.
The vertical grip is OK on the bench, thumb to side works.
For other positions, I dislike it.
The transition/curve of the wrist (on the stock) was not comfy for my thumb (when trying to wrap thumb).
I suppose one could lessen the radius and or drop the dip, but dunno how the plastic would look after such mod.
Rather than try to make mine comfy I sold the stock.

Do find the old sporter stock to be the most comfy on a 10/22.
If one has a standard carbine stock, eh they're cheap and if of wood..........Dremel til you make it what you want.
Bondo if you you go too far.

Dislike thumbhole stocks. But have shot for decades and am used to certain form/styles.
A new shooter might not have developed any preference, might be more adaptable.

 

[Hookeye]

Dunno if this would help the OP's grip or not....just something I came across a while back.
Purchased the shotgunner cheek wedge for a rile. Worked but was heavy, and the rifle already a tank.
After scoping and ammo testing........where I needed the riser...............ended up removing scope and tossing slab o' rubber in the trash.
Didn't need for anything else and wasn't gonna shove it in cab w all my other junk.
Am a bit of a minimalist, get into cleaning fits about twice a year LOL

https://godagrip.com/grips/

 

[diveski11]

Kriss dmk 22 is under 600 and uses 1022 bbls. So you could get one like this then put in a light Tacsol bbl and probably be around 5 lbs

Length of pull and grip to trigger distances might be too long on many of the options I've compiled.
I'm liking the looks of this one more and more. It takes 15-22 magazines, which I have several already. Possibility to upgrade the barrel is of interest but the reviews I've watched on YouTube make that seem unnecessary for my personal goals at this time. Probably needs a new firing pin and ambi charging handle straight away but those are a minor investment. Maybe swap stock to CTR with a riser but that depends on scope height. Weight-wise it's smack in the middle between my AR and my 15-22.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGt0zmLgMnw

 

[Ggreen]

Length of pull and grip to trigger distances might be too long on many of the options I've compiled.
I'm liking the looks of this one more and more. It takes 15-22 magazines, which I have several already. Possibility to upgrade the barrel is of interest but the reviews I've watched on YouTube make that seem unnecessary for my personal goals at this time. Probably needs a new firing pin and ambi charging handle straight away but those are a minor investment. Maybe swap stock to CTR with a riser but that depends on scope height. Weight-wise it's smack in the middle between my AR and my 15-22.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGt0zmLgMnw

I've got a DMK22 lvoa and a tippmann, I think the tippmann is better.

 

[diveski11]

.. If you are serious about improving accuracy in any 22lr rifle, you need to buy at least a half dozen or more varieties of ammo with a good reputation and test them all in your individual rifle...

Just added a tab to my excel file for ammo to try. A couple of sites have a flat shipping rate of ~$12 so I might as well pick a good selection to try. I'll be combing posts to build a list.

 

[pblanc]

"Best 22lr ammo" discussions come up pretty frequently on rimfire central dot com, and the Project Appleseed forum. Most of the Project Appleseed 22lr events are shot at either 25 yards or 25 meters, and probably 3/4 or more of the participants are shooting some variety of Ruger 10/22. As was discussed earlier, these AS events are very similar to the Revere's Riders basic rifle 125 events.

For what it is worth, here is a comment that was posted on the Appleseed forum by an AS instructor: "Most of the Arkansas Appleseeders, who have some level of instructor hat, shoot CCI ammo at the Appleseed events in our state. Some shoot 40 gr MiniMags (1200 fps). Some shoot Standard Velocity (1070 fps). In the instructor corps, there is also occasional Aguila SuperExtra. We, that shoot CCI Standard Velocity, insist that the groups are smaller."

Part of the problem is finding the best ammo is that a variety that works reliably and affords excellent accuracy in your rifle, may give lousy results in your friend's. There are good reasons for this.

In general, most folks find that some variety of 40 grain round nose 22lr will be most accurate at 25-50 yard range. Forget the "quiet" ammo which is really low velocity and won't reliably cycle the action of many semi-auto rifles. Standard velocity ammunition is subsonic, but quiet ammo has a significantly lower muzzle velocity still. Also forget the hyper-velocity ammo which tends to use light projectiles and is intended more for shooting varmints at longer ranges. Some rifle shooters find that standard velocity ammo is a bit more accurate but others have found that "high" (not hyper) velocity ammo (which has a super-sonic muzzle velocity) provides as good or better accuracy in their rifles. Most high quality match ammo is going to be of the standard velocity type.

Although the nominal projectile diameter for 22 long rifle is 0.223", you will find that some varieties of 22lr have projectile diameters up to 0.225" diameter or as small as .221. You might not think that a couple thousands of an inch makes much difference, but it can make for very different results in two different barrels. "Match" chambers tend to be considerably tighter than those found on semi-auto rifles, and many match rifles are bolt action. The bores of match rifles often tend to be a bit tighter than many semi-auto barrels. You will generally get the best accuracy if you can match the diameter of the projectile to the diameter of your rifle bore. You will probably get the most accuracy from ammunition with projectiles slightly greater in diameter (up to .001") than the diameter of your rifle bore. Since most of us do not own precision micrometers and bore gauges that are accurate to less than a thousand of an inch, this means trial and error.

Bolt action match rifles can use ammunition that is a very tight fit in the chamber. The positive cam action of the bolt will guarantee reliable feeding, whereas a semi-auto rifle requires the force of the recoil spring to feed ammunition into the chamber, which is much less positive. So most semi-auto rifles will have more generous chambers to ensure reliable feeding. Sometimes very expensive match quality ammo will not give the best accuracy in a semi-auto 22lr with a generous chamber because the cartridge is a somewhat loose fit. On the other hand, using an ammunition type with a generous projectile diameter in a rifle with a tight chamber and barrel bore may result in failures to feed. Also, some barrels with tighter chambers and bores may not allow reliable extraction of a live round if the projectile is a tight fit. This means that if you run out of time on those timed stages, and a cease fire is called before you have fired all your shots, you may be left with a live round chambered that has to be manually extracted from the chamber.

You will generally be much better off with ammunition that is packaged with the cartridges separated in 50 or 100 round boxes. For one thing, it tends to be more consistent with regards to powder charge and tends to have more reliable primer charges than the bulk-pack ammo. Also, when you have a bunch of cartridges rattling around loose in a box, the projectiles can get dinged up to a greater or lessor degree which can effect accuracy. There are always odd-ball exceptions, however. I saw one youtube video in which a guy was testing a variety of ammo types in a 22lr semi-auto and found that Federal Auto-Match bulk-pack gave better results than either CCI mini-mag or CCI Standard velocity.

Obviously, try to buy one or two 50 round boxes of each ammo before you commit to buying in quantity. In addition to CCI 40 grain Mini-mag and CCI 40 grain Standard Velocity, I would try Aguila Super Extra (either standard velocity or high velocity or both), CCI Blazer, CCI Green Tag, Eley Target, SK Standard Plus, and Wolf Match Extra (which is probably the same thing as SK Standard Plus).