300 Yard Deer Rifle

[Yeah]

6x45 is anemic even at 100.

-Nate

Nate,

What have you shot at 100 (yards?) that 6x45 bounced off of?

Anxious to read the tale.

 

[fender]

When I wanted my first high powered rifle I asked both my grandpa's what to get they both said 30/06 for any game in North America that's what I bought. But that was to easy thinking maybe there opinions were dated being they were ww2 vets. I started trying every caliber I could afford after years of spending time and money I am right back where I started and they already were. 30/06 if long action is ok 308 win. if short action preferred. My brother on the other hand has the discipline to not chase the hype and marketing bought a 270 win. first and has not felt the need to change because it has worked every time on everything. go figure

 

[VERT]

When I wanted my first high powered rifle I asked both my grandpa's what to get they both said 30/06 for any game in North America that's what I bought. But that was to easy thinking maybe there opinions were dated being they were ww2 vets. I started trying every caliber I could afford after years of spending time and money I am right back where I started and they already were. 30/06 if long action is ok 308 win. if short action preferred. My brother on the other hand has the discipline to not chase the hype and marketing bought a 270 win. first and has not felt the need to change because it has worked every time on everything. go figure

This is/was good advise. Lot of great cartridges right now but .243, .270, .308, 30-06 really should cover about anyone’s needs. At least as far as off the shelf hunting rifles with factory ammunition.

 

[natdscott]

Nate,

What have you shot at 100 (yards?) that 6x45 bounced off of?

Anxious to read the tale.

Gosh, I love trolls. I just can't eat a whole one.

I don't have a lot to prove anymore except to myself, but you asked to hear about things, so I'll kindly oblige.

I don't own a 6x45, and I don't plan to. That being said, if you care to know, from .223 and 5.56 NATO, I have run 55-90 grainers from 2 through 1,000 yards in barrels from 10.5" through 24"...Everything in my signature lines was done with .223. I've used 5 different brands of casings, numerous bullets, several powders, and spec my own chambers at this point. Granted .224 is not .243", but if you run the numbers on SD of 80 and 90 grain .224, and compare them to your favorite 6x45 bullets, I think you'll find I'm pretty far ahead in that department.

What's not in those signature lines is well north of 1,000 inches of antler on several walls and record books, and enough other animals killed to amount to some earned respect from those who know me beyond this little internet you are able to so anonymously inhabit.

I have never lost a deer I shot with a gun. Ever. There are lots of reasons for that, but a very good one is that I have always used enough gun. I was handed a 12 gauge full of Super-X slugs as an 8 year old, and that was the understanding: "If you want to do this, stand up like a man and do it."

So,

1) If you're questioning my understanding of the 45mm .378" casing, you better be a firearms engineer, or work for JGS.

2) If you're questioning my judgement on what it takes to humanely and easily kill all sizes and genders of Indiana whitetail deer, in all conditions they can be encountered, then we'll just have to disagree.

For the deer's sake, I hope you can shoot as well as you run your mouth.

-Nate

 

[LarryC]

https://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=40495&d=1231015961

hmmm maybe my 308 rounds are milder. I will admit I may not have converted Meters to yard’s correctly in my calculations but my normal 308 rounds drop 17.7 at 300 yards and close to 23.5 at 300 Meters. Darn English to metric conversions

Personally I would use the Hornady 178gr ELD X, the ballistics chart of that bullet states that if you Zero at 200 yard, at 100 you are 2.2" high, and at at 300 yard is 8.9 drop. Of course at 400 it drops drastically to 25.5".

The Horady EDL-X 78gr. .308 is advertised (and many reviews indicate the ads are correct) to expand reliably from 0 to 400 yards and is capable of taking medium game from 50 to 300 LB. and large game from 300 to 1500 lb. It is also purported to be very stable in wind.

In reality Whitetail deer are light skinned and can be taken with many smaller weaker calibers. I have been told by a Game Warden, (an acquaintance of many years), that more deer have been killed by poachers with 22 LR than legal deer with hi-powered rifles. The flat shooting modern bullets of the last three years have much more reliable expansion then the ones I used 50+ years ago! Hornady ~ Berger and some others have been leaders in designing, marketing and producing these cartridges. Nothing produced commercially 4 years ago even came close to the performance of the new cartridges.

Having re-read the ops later messages I understand he is now considering a different cartridge. The 6.5 Creedmoor, although I have no experience with one, does appear via spec. sheet to be an excellent 300 yard deer cartridge. It is slightly flatter shooting then the .308 with a 243 GR bullet (Hornady EDL X) and is rated for game from 50 to 1500 Lb. I certainly wouldn't be adverse to hunting with that choice. The accuracy is well in line with the .308 and has less recoil. Personally I would opt to purchase that rifle, rather then wait for the .308.

 

[natdscott]

Nothing produced commercially 4 years ago even came close to the performance of the new cartridges.

You make some good points about other things, but that statement is untrue.

-Nate

 

[saintnick81]

Spent the last week reading up on the 6.5 and I did decide to make the change. Picking up the rifle this week, then it's getting wrapped and going under the tree.

 

[natdscott]

Which 6.5?

 

[VERT]

Spent the last week reading up on the 6.5 and I did decide to make the change. Picking up the rifle this week, then it's getting wrapped and going under the tree.

6.5 Creedmore seems to be the new hotness. Congratulations

 

[yetti462]

Can't go wrong with 6.5. 300 yds won't be a problem. Every round I've shot out of mine groups great, can't decide which grain bullet to go with. You'll be happy.

 

[saintnick81]

Which 6.5?

6.5 creedmoor. I am new to anything center fire rifle except 5.56/.223 so I am learning that a number is not enough.

 

[throttletony]

Gosh, I love trolls. I just can't eat a whole one.

I don't have a lot to prove anymore except to myself, but you asked to hear about things, so I'll kindly oblige.

I don't own a 6x45, and I don't plan to. That being said, if you care to know, from .223 and 5.56 NATO, I have run 55-90 grainers from 2 through 1,000 yards in barrels from 10.5" through 24"...Everything in my signature lines was done with .223. I've used 5 different brands of casings, numerous bullets, several powders, and spec my own chambers at this point. Granted .224 is not .243", but if you run the numbers on SD of 80 and 90 grain .224, and compare them to your favorite 6x45 bullets, I think you'll find I'm pretty far ahead in that department.

What's not in those signature lines is well north of 1,000 inches of antler on several walls and record books, and enough other animals killed to amount to some earned respect from those who know me beyond this little internet you are able to so anonymously inhabit.

I have never lost a deer I shot with a gun. Ever. There are lots of reasons for that, but a very good one is that I have always used enough gun. I was handed a 12 gauge full of Super-X slugs as an 8 year old, and that was the understanding: "If you want to do this, stand up like a man and do it."

So,

1) If you're questioning my understanding of the 45mm .378" casing, you better be a firearms engineer, or work for JGS.

2) If you're questioning my judgement on what it takes to humanely and easily kill all sizes and genders of Indiana whitetail deer, in all conditions they can be encountered, then we'll just have to disagree.

For the deer's sake, I hope you can shoot as well as you run your mouth.

-Nate

I don't think the previous comment from Yeah was an attack, I think he was saying that a 6x45 would be decent at 300 yds. I didn't see claims that it was the ultimate option.
I, like many others, would probably just prefer a .243 to keep it simple, affordable, and omnipresent on store shelves. (I can't remember if OP said he'd be reloading or not).

You are correct about the .223 - it is surprisingly capable, especially with handloads!

Getting back to the OP, I think we've wandered into some wildcat cartridge territory. If he ended up getting the 6.5 Creedmoor, he should be set for 300 yds and well beyond!

 

[natdscott]

I think my strong opinions on cartridge selection for deer hunting stem from a rather extensive knowledge--for somebody who doesn't GUIDE for a living--of what all stupid sh#$ hunters do in the heat of the moment, and even how badly things can go for reasons OUTside the hunter's control.

This thing is not a science project to see what might work.

I've seen some really big holes blown through deer with the huge frontal area and raw power of 12ga Foster slugs, that proved to be really marginal in killing ability despite being placed within the abdominal cavity.

And then some deer are just really damned tough. Take a .50 BP round in the vitals, lie down. Take another round. Run 1/2 mile and grab 3 more slugs and a few BP Sabot rounds on the way, spraying most of their blood on the snow during the run. Those are BIG, HEAVY rounds that blow giant holes through vital structures, and they still fail sometimes.

The only "2nd buck" I ever shot had had a broken femur for at least a week (judging by the smell), and the slug had penetrated the abdominal wall on the way. If it had been summer, he'd have had maggots. He was running slowly enough across an open field that I could almost keep up with him, and I still had to shoot him twice with the .243 coyote rifle. (Well. At least ONE of the two rounds scored. It was a long shot for me at the time. )

We've had to catch up and put in the good work for way too many animals that didn't deserve the lack of respect they received. Using a .410 slug at 100 yards is inadvisable for the same reasons as is 6x45, even if they are legal. Legislators do not always make good decisions, as shocking as that may sound.

I don't apologize for my recommendations to use heavy and/or fast cartridges with intelligent and practiced shot placement. The two put together usually get it done, one sometimes compensating for a shortfall in the other and vice versa.

Small cartridges don't have compensatory ability, and that makes them a non-option where an animal's last allowed grace in life might be at the end of your trigger finger.

Hunt or don't, but don't half ass it.

-Nate

 

[avboiler11]

Shot placement and bullet selection/construction matters a lot more than bullet diameter and weight.

6x45 is plenty for deer at 100 yards, or even 300 yards, with the right bullet put into the right location; I'd submit anybody hunting with a 6x45 isn't likely to be a three-shots-on-a-paper-plate Fudd but rather somebody who reloads and had a custom barrel installed on a rifle. Those are the types of people who are likely to shoot enough to know the limitations of their system.

I would also say 6x45 would be fine at 100-150yd, as would 300 Blackout...but 300 is getting pretty marginal due to energy and expansion velocity for both.

But hey, I've harvested two deer with .224 centerfires using match bullets that didn't take a step so...

 

[ru44mag]

Now that you have picked your rifle and caliber, and you like to research things, research Redfield scopes. I always heard Leupold was good, so
I put one on my 30-06. Later, when searching for scopes for other rifles I wanted the same quality, but wanted a bargain. I found out the Leupold made Redfield scopes. I put a 3x9x40 Redfield on a .223 rifle, and bought a 2x7x33 for a 44 mag rifle that later found it's way to an AR. I like them. I am no scope expert, but maybe others have opinions about Redfield. Good or bad.

 

[Hookeye]

The Redfields made by Leupold are the "Revolution" models. The "Revenge" models are import (Philippine IIRC).
Had one 4-12X and five of the 2-7X.
No probs with any.
Note: adjustments IIRC are 1/4 per click at 100. On three it was noticed that the increment was correct for one axis, but bigger for the other.
1.5x what it was reported to be.
They zeroed OK..........but took less clicks than thought initially LOL.

 

[VERT]

The Redfields made by Leupold are the "Revolution" models. The "Revenge" models are import (Philippine IIRC).

Then Redfield Revolution, Sightron SIH, & Vortex Crossfire II all seem to be good value glass. Not top of the line but rather a good buy on a respectable budget. I think all offer a 3x9x40 which seems to be the bread and butter for hunting scopes.

 

[Hookeye]

As for lesser cartridge choices...........

my hunting spot and surrounding area makes deer recovery easy.

General deer hunting, might want stuff that offers more shot selection/insurance.

I look at using "lesser" cartridges like using a recurve bow.
You just accept the limits.

 

[Hookeye]

There is a spot I might lease, that does offer 300+ plus yards.
My buddy's dads place offers shots to double that.
Always wanted a .257 Weatherby mag, but had a 7 Rem mag and liked it a lot.
See what deal I come across this summer..........just in case I hunt those other spots.

 

[ru44mag]

The Redfields made by Leupold are the "Revolution" models. The "Revenge" models are import (Philippine IIRC).
Had one 4-12X and five of the 2-7X.
No probs with any.
Note: adjustments IIRC are 1/4 per click at 100. On three it was noticed that the increment was correct for one axis, but bigger for the other.
1.5x what it was reported to be.
They zeroed OK..........but took less clicks than thought initially LOL.

Hmm. I just checked the gun safe. Looks like I have 1 each. Oh well. The AR has a Philippine scope on it. I looked on the bottom, and it even says so. LOL. We will see how long it lasts. It works well now.