308 reloading help...stumped

[billybob44]

Winner-Winner-Chicken Dinner...

You did not setback your shoulder enough. 1/8 extra is not enough for your press. Screw it down farther until a resized case chambers easily in you boltgun.

Don't be modifiying anything until you have taken up all the slack in your press. You should consider getting a case gauge, but your rifle chamber makes a better gauge for precise ammo for your rifle.

Your situation is very common and easily fixed. The fix may not make sense, but try it. I know it works.

Was going to type the same thing, slough..

You need to push your shoulder back until the case fits YOUR rifle...Bill.

 

[lovemywoods]

My full length sizer die is a hornaday, and the neck sizer i just got is an rcbs. Quick question on that....does the neck sizer set the shoulder back?

Yes, the neck sizer sets the shoulder back to specification.

Even with the extra 1/8 turn this dimension does not change when run in the die. so maybe i need to reduce the thickness of my shell holder.
Brian

[STRIKE]You would need to get a taller shell holder if you want to move the shoulder back with no changes to your sizing die.
A "thinner" shell holder would hold the case farther from the die thus raising the shoulder.[/STRIKE]
This answer was wrong. See post below.

 

[17 squirrel]

You would need to get a taller shell holder if you want to move the shoulder back with no changes to your sizing die.
A "thinner" shell holder would hold the case farther from the die thus raising the shoulder.

You're backwards, if you have a shell holder that is thinner ( the top of the shell holder has been milled down ) the brass case will go into the sizing die farther, and with that push the shoulder back in the process.
That's not the way to correct the problem the op has.

 

[lovemywoods]

You're backwards, if you have a shell holder that is thinner ( the top of the shell holder has been milled down ) the brass case will go into the sizing die farther, and with that push the shoulder back in the process.
That's not the way to correct the problem the op has.

I stand corrected. I was mistaken on how these work. Thanks for educating me. I always learn something new on INGO!

 

[17 squirrel]

You are welcome sir.

 

[Cerberus]

My full length sizer die is a hornaday, and the neck sizer i just got is an rcbs. Quick question on that....does the neck sizer set the shoulder back?

I did the trick someone mentioned to check the shoulder length by using a 38spl case. What i found was the easy to chamber brass was about .001-.002 shorter than the hard to chamber brass. The military impossible to chamber brass was about .008 longer. But all these wnt through the same dies!

Even with the extra 1/8 turn this dimension does not change when run in the die. so maybe i need to reduce the thickness of my shell holder. But why the mil brass still so lomg? The only thing i can think is they are hard to remove from the die...maybe they are stretching back out?

Brian

After I had my little try with the Hornady .308 FL resizer I did some research and found that the problem is not unheard of. My Lee and RCBS regular and SB dies set the shoulder back with ease. Your military brass will be hard to resize initially, it was ran through a MG with a most spacious chamber. My military brass is set aside solely for my M1A, the bolt rifles get commercial brass weighed for consistency.

 

[Broom_jm]

My son's Savage M10 in 308 also has a tight chamber. I think this may be fairly common with Savage rifles because of how the barrel nut allows them to create a very tight and consistent headspace, which also results in very accurate rifles.

The process you mention for adjusting your sizing die is correct, but not necessarily complete. You should keep adjusting the die down until you feel ADDED resistance, above and beyond what it takes to resize the case. This added resistance is caused by the press camming over, and should not be excessive. You should feel it, but just barely. This lets you know you are sizing that piece of brass as much as possible with the die and press you have. Shaving .001" off the top of your shell-holder isn't a terrible idea; even if it wasn't needed, you can always adjust that back out with the die.

I hate to do this, but Lovemywoods was also incorrect about a neck-sizing die pushing the shoulder back on a piece of brass. By definition, a neck-sizing die ONLY sizes the neck.

As for whether or not to try brass that you sized for your rifle in other guns, I don't see why anyone would bother to do that. If it fits YOUR gun, who cares if it fits someone in any other gun?

There is a slight chance the die is bad, but that's pretty rare. What was the measured length from the head of the case to the mouth of the 38, where it met the shoulder?

 

[baba]

I dont recall the exact measurement off the top of my head, but can check when i get home
I am still confused as to how both the military and commercial brass are going through the same die and xoming oit different lengths.

Brian

 

[lovemywoods]

I hate to do this, but Lovemywoods was also incorrect about a neck-sizing die pushing the shoulder back on a piece of brass. By definition, a neck-sizing die ONLY sizes the neck.

Wow, I'm 0-2! I need to do my homework better and stop saying what I think I know and stick to what I really know. Hat's off to Broom_jm and the many other more experienced reloaders here. Thanks for not letting bad information get out. [/getting quiet for now...]

 

[baba]

OK...the ones that easily chamber measure 1.691-1.693". The ones that have extra resistance to close are 1.694-1.695, and the ones that wont chamber at all are 1.699. The shortest are the GMMs, the mids are the resized commercial brass, and the longs are the military brass. The latter two all wnt through my FL sizer. I dont get it. Shoudn it have resized them all about the same size?

I would say that if I got the brass .001 or .002 further in to the die I'd have this issue licked. But the fact that the mil brass isn't getting pushed back as far as the commercial ones makes me wonder if the die is doing anything at all.....

-Brian

 

[sloughfoot]

Because you have not turned the die in beyond 1/8 turn, the die may not be doing anything.

Re-read the broom description on what to do. He explained it best.

If you aren't willing to do that, there is nothing else to say here.

 

[baba]

Sorry if I did not male this clear, but i am down an EXTRA 1/8 turn from where this thread started. So I am mow down a total of about 1/4 turn. Made that change per this thread. This is conistent with how I understand the descriptions in this thread, as well as the written instructio s with the die.

With the way it is now, the arm of the press would have slightly more travel if the die weren't there, and the shellholder makes full contact with the face of the die. Am I still missing something or do I have it right? When i reloaded pistol calibers on this press that is how I ran them. I am not nearly as experienced with the rifle reloading.

-Brian

 

[Broom_jm]

What you're describing is either a die that isn't adjusted correctly or one that wasn't manufactured correctly. Of the two, the former has happened many times, while the latter is a fairly unusual occurrence.

The odds are very good that you still need to adjust your die down further to obtain that last 2 to 3 thousandths of set-back on the shoulder. Also, if MG-fired brass isn't working for your tight-chambered rifle, then don't use it. The best brass for a bolt-action rifle is the stuff that has been fired one time, in your rifle, then sized to fit your gun perfectly. That's where you'll get the best possible accuracy.

 

[Broom_jm]

Sorry if I did not male this clear, but i am down an EXTRA 1/8 turn from where this thread started. So I am mow down a total of about 1/4 turn. Made that change per this thread. This is conistent with how I understand the descriptions in this thread, as well as the written instructio s with the die.

With the way it is now, the arm of the press would have slightly more travel if the die weren't there, and the shellholder makes full contact with the face of the die. Am I still missing something or do I have it right? When i reloaded pistol calibers on this press that is how I ran them. I am not nearly as experienced with the rifle reloading.

-Brian

At the bottom of the handle for your press is a toggle link. When you have lowered the handle as much as possible on a case you are sizing, raising the ram to its highest point, that toggle link should "cam over", which is a term for going just past center on a cam. This results in maximum mechanical leverage where you need it most, pushing the neck back and sizing the head of a metallic case.

Your die should be adjusted such that the handle of the press goes all the way down. (Make sure nothing on the bench is limiting its travel.) The last little bit of travel as you bring the arm down should result in a slight increase in resistance over what you felt during the first 98% of the range of movement. The mouth of the resizing die will touch the shellholder before you feel this added resistance. You are forcing the case into the die and using this cam over action to ensure it is as far as possible into the die.

If that still fails to move the shoulder back, you'll have to either get a different die or make accommodations at the shell holder to allow the case further into the die you have.

 

[sht4brnz]

Brass does have some spring back. Thicker brass will have more spring back than thinner brass. This may be the reason for the variance between your mil brass and your factory.
Measure a case before you run it through your die to identify how much change you are getting from the die.
Anneal a case and run it through the die, measure it and see if you are getting better measurements. Annealing will help reduce the spring back.
You may need to replace your die or remove material from the bottom of it, allowing the case to be inserted further into the die.

 

[jblomenberg16]

Great advice so far. I've noticed that sometimes running the brass through 2 helps. Not sure exactly why, but could be related to several things already mentioned.

 

[baba]

Well, i will check the set up once again. I think the die is there though but it cant hurt to check.

For the record, not all of the military brass is MG pick ups. Most of what I have is LC brass fired in my M1A.

I did measure the brass before and after going theough the die and found no change. I will repeat that teat once i check the setup again. I may also do something to make sure i dont have any flex in my bench. I suppose it could be that too, just showing up now with the longer and harder to size brass.

Rhanks for the replies. I will keep you posted.

 

[sht4brnz]

It may be that you found an incompatible shell holder and die combination (if they are two different manufacturers).

 

[BGDave]

This may not make sense at first.

Are you using Hornady One Shot case lube or another brand of aerosol spray lube?

 

[17 squirrel]

This may not make sense at first.

Are you using Hornady One Shot case lube or another brand of aerosol spray lube?

Please explain..,