673 cops patrol the site of the World Trade Center; Over-policing slows the rebuild

[machete]

Wait, I thought cops pay taxes which fund the employment of other cops.

its like the federal reserve of employment lol

tim,,,the building is larrys,,,we dont need to pay to guard larrys building... plus,,,its not ground zero anymore,,,its just wtc1,,,no reason its more of a target than any other building

 

[E5RANGER375]

Not interested in a whip it out and measure argument Ranger but the way we do things on US soil is police patrol the neighborhoods here, not soldiers. I have no problem with the number of police put on the security of this high value 16 acreage area but I would have a problem with that number of military personnel in full military gear there. This says nothing against either soldiers or police but we can't confuse the proper deployment to the proper places of either.

Im not interested in showing you up in that area either , Im just saying that police are acting like soldiers and it shouldn't be allowed. I will be the first one to stand against the military patrolling our streets. not only is it unconstitutional but its a very bad idea.

 

[TiminMishawaka]

I bet the taxpayers who aren't total progressives might have a problem with it.

673 officers * $76,500 per year median NYPD salary = $51,484,500

$51 Million per year to keep an army of officers around an office building.

This is the problem. 51 Million SOUNDS like a big number until you actually break down the costs and the numbers.

Before the attacks, the entire WTC complex consisted of 11.2 million square feet of office space. That's a security cost of $4.58 per square foot per year for office space that's worth around $76.00 per year in lease rates downtown Manhattan. That's security that cost 6% of the lease value alone. The actual value this thing is worth is in the income it brings to the city. This thing holds 26,0000 employed people with an estimated taxable yearly income of 3.6 Billion dollars. That's just the job income of the workers there and does not reflect the job income of every service employee hired to service the workers there. The total cost of the police force there is 1.4% of the taxable income of the office workers there alone. That's it. 1.4%. New York city is a city that has a personal income tax rate. The New York city income tax from these workers alone is going to pay for this police force before you even begin to calculate the tax income that will come in from the corporate profit taxes, the service business income taxes and the service business employees personal income tax that will come from this site, the sales taxes from the employees that buy food, office supplies and real estate around the rebuilt site and everything else that comes with the economic activity of moving 26,000 jobs (traditionally high paying financial sector jobs) into this site which is owned by the port authority.

You can whine and moan about the "taxpayers" that will be paying for this but the truth is that the taxpayers who will be paying for this will be paying for it with the jobs that will be made by rebuilding this site and providing security for it. It's a great deal for the people there.

 

[TiminMishawaka]

Im not interested in showing you up in that area either , Im just saying that police are acting like soldiers and it shouldn't be allowed. I will be the first one to stand against the military patrolling our streets. not only is it unconstitutional but its a very bad idea.

Good, because I'm not interested in seeing it.

I think we agree and I wasn't referring to police acting like soldiers when I said "ground defense". I just couldn't think of a better term to describe it. My point was it was a truck bomb that hit the site in 1993 and just because it was a plane in 2001 doesn't mean that when it's rebuilt we need to ignore the possibility of truck bombs again.

 

[E5RANGER375]

Good, because I'm not interested in seeing it.

I think we agree and I wasn't referring to police acting like soldiers when I said "ground defense". I just couldn't think of a better term to describe it. My point was it was a truck bomb that hit the site in 1993 and just because it was a plane in 2001 doesn't mean that when it's rebuilt we need to ignore the possibility of truck bombs again.

agreed.

The reason cities like new york are big targets is because the terrorist and criminals know they are gun free zones. I believe if we made sure more citizens were armed, we would see a reduction in crime.

 

[rambone]

My point was it was a truck bomb that hit the site in 1993 and just because it was a plane in 2001 doesn't mean that when it's rebuilt we need to ignore the possibility of truck bombs again.

I don't really see how adding more bodies to the situation is going to prevent a truck bomb either. As long as they are public employees they are bound by the constitution, and any form of checkpoint or other illegal search isn't going to jive with anyone who believes in that document.

And "terrorists" have plenty of other buildings to choose from. You can't keep a city safe from the unknown. All you get is Big Government, a lot of wasted money, and people unnecessarily being scrutinized by bored cops.

 

[hornadylnl]

This is the problem. 51 Million SOUNDS like a big number until you actually break down the costs and the numbers.

Before the attacks, the entire WTC complex consisted of 11.2 million square feet of office space. That's a security cost of $4.58 per square foot per year for office space that's worth around $76.00 per year in lease rates downtown Manhattan. That's security that cost 6% of the lease value alone. The actual value this thing is worth is in the income it brings to the city. This thing holds 26,0000 employed people with an estimated taxable yearly income of 3.6 Billion dollars. That's just the job income of the workers there and does not reflect the job income of every service employee hired to service the workers there. The total cost of the police force there is 1.4% of the taxable income of the office workers there alone. That's it. 1.4%. New York city is a city that has a personal income tax rate. The New York city income tax from these workers alone is going to pay for this police force before you even begin to calculate the tax income that will come in from the corporate profit taxes, the service business income taxes and the service business employees personal income tax that will come from this site, the sales taxes from the employees that buy food, office supplies and real estate around the rebuilt site and everything else that comes with the economic activity of moving 26,000 jobs (traditionally high paying financial sector jobs) into this site which is owned by the port authority.

You can whine and moan about the "taxpayers" that will be paying for this but the truth is that the taxpayers who will be paying for this will be paying for it with the jobs that will be made by rebuilding this site and providing security for it. It's a great deal for the people there.

Let's expand this further. Are all of the businesses or jobs being housed in the new wtc new, or are the majority just relocating from other buildings? If simply building new office space creates new jobs and wealth, you should be on the president's economic advisory panel. You just solved the world financial crisis. Creating office space creates jobs.

The figures you give are not newly create wealth. It's shuffling the deck chairs on the titanic. No doubt the city of New York will use your figures to create new spending.

 

[TiminMishawaka]

Actually Hornady that's not entirely inaccurate. When you create a climate that entices business, business comes.

 

[hornadylnl]

Actually Hornady that's not entirely inaccurate. When you create a climate that entices business, business comes.

Everybody likes to tout "separation of church and state". I think my new slogan will be "separation of economy and state".

Ever heard of the Austrian school of economics? Your reasoning leads to things like Kelo where a guy lost his house to a strip mall developer. It was the common good. Taking tax dollars to rebuild the wtc is no different than using eminent domain for private business.

 

[hornadylnl]

Oh, I'm sure NYC's government and tax structure is real enticing to bring business in. People are fleeing there like the JJ founder is fleeing Illinois.

 

[rambone]

Being the curious guy that I am, I emailed my local police department for some comparative numbers.

There are 35,000 residents in my town.
51 total officers on the entire force.
6-10 on duty per shift.

If the WTC has 160 officers on duty per shift, that means that the complex will have between 16 - 26 times as many officers on duty as my entire town. Just thought it was interesting.

 

[TiminMishawaka]

Your town has 44 million visitors and tourists each year? Wow.

 

[rambone]

Your town has 44 million visitors and tourists each year? Wow.

The only number that is relevant is the average number of people on site at any one time. Otherwise we should add up every time a cop leaves and enters the premises as a brand new employee.