8.6 BLK Thread

[sapper83]

View attachment 332419

Just kidding, just kidding! I love the time-tested cartridges, too. Nothing wrong with a little fun playing around with new stuff, though.

Haha who doesn't like a lil strange from time to time!

 

[AndreusMaximus]

Actually, serious question though:

The main "problem" that the 8.6 blackout seems to be trying to solve, if I understand it, is what I'll call the "subsonic conundrum." Basically, if you want to go out and hunt with a movie-quiet gun, you have to shoot subsonic. Normally when hunting, you want to increase the damage your bullet can do, to the point where it will reliably take down whatever game you are hunting, and the most basic way to do that is to increase velocity, so that you get more bullet expansion and/or fragmentation, more hydrostatic shock, etc. But trying to keep a bullet subsonic puts a hard cap on your bullet's velocity, so the problem is: how do you increase effect on target, short of just pushing a heavier and heavier bullet with a larger and larger diameter, which will have negative effects like increased recoil and more bullet drag and thus less ability to shoot at distance?

The 8.6 blackout's answer is, evidently, to increase twist rate to the point of insanity, so that your bullet spins so rapidly that it actually will create more or less the same effect as having a faster bullet.

It's an interesting answer that they've come up with, and I wonder if it has ever been tried before? Are there any other cartridges out there that attempt the same thing, or is this really a first?

 

[BigMoose]

I was looking at it in a different perspective, valid point to a readily available off the shelf caliber. I don't go into stores often because the prices are higher. I buy off line (until dems ban it) or I reload.

I do see 300blk and 6.5cm, even 6.5 grendel sometimes, when i grace my local shops with my presence most the shops here are run by hipsters so that may influence the fad rounds.

None of the Fad rounds ever truly goes away, enough guns make it out that someone will make the ammo.

But heck.. a LOT of clearly old non mainstream cartridges are made, because there are still guns in that caliber.
(Look at the PPU ammo rifle calibers sometime)

It just costs a ton.

Yeah, 7.62x51/5.56x45 are old cartridge and the new stuff absolutely does things better. These old cartridges are always going to be the cheapest and easiest to find.

 

[sapper83]

Actually, serious question though:

The main "problem" that the 8.6 blackout seems to be trying to solve, if I understand it, is what I'll call the "subsonic conundrum." Basically, if you want to go out and hunt with a movie-quiet gun, you have to shoot subsonic. Normally when hunting, you want to increase the damage your bullet can do, to the point where it will reliably take down whatever game you are hunting, and the most basic way to do that is to increase velocity, so that you get more bullet expansion and/or fragmentation, more hydrostatic shock, etc. But trying to keep a bullet subsonic puts a hard cap on your bullet's velocity, so the problem is: how do you increase effect on target, short of just pushing a heavier and heavier bullet with a larger and larger diameter, which will have negative effects like increased recoil and more bullet drag and thus less ability to shoot at distance?

The 8.6 blackout's answer is, evidently, to increase twist rate to the point of insanity, so that your bullet spins so rapidly that it actually will create more or less the same effect as having a faster bullet.

It's an interesting answer that they've come up with, and I wonder if it has ever been tried before? Are there any other cartridges out there that attempt the same thing, or is this really a first?

Yeah I think we have the same understanding of what the 8.6 proposed goal is. I personally am not sold because 1:3 twist is insane and has been proven twist rates are marginal with out extending the barrel. I feel they are trying to sell to the (movie quiet silencer crowd) and hoping it catches fire. When hunting, who cares about volume of your shot?

 

[AndreusMaximus]

I personally am not sold because 1:3 twist is insane and has been proven twist rates are marginal with out extending the barrel.

What exactly does this phrase mean?

Do you just mean that somebody sat down and calculated out the total kinetic energy of a certain weight of bullet spinning at different rates, and then decided that since the calculated energy was not significantly different, there must not be a difference in effect on target?

Or have you actually seen real-world tests done on ballistic gel, or better yet, while actually hunting, comparing the effects of subsonic, expanding bullets at say a 1:7 vs. a 1:3 twist rate? (I have not; I just genuinely don't know.)

And I'm not sure what you mean by extending the barrel?

When hunting, who cares about volume of your shot?

Yes, for most people this is what I imagine would make this more of a "just for fun/just too cool" round, and not really a practical thing. Still, if you've ever shot subsonic suppressed, you know just how much more pleasant it is, and I can see why someone might want that while hunting, even it's only a luxury. I guess it might actually be practical, too, for people who do nighttime hunting of nuisance animals that travel in herds/packs. Might make it easier to pick off larger numbers at once.

 

[edwea]

Why hate just because you don't see the need? A new and different cartridge can be just because. No reason necessary, because want to is good enough. Leave it alone if it doesn't interest you.

 

[sapper83]

What exactly does this phrase mean?

Do you just mean that somebody sat down and calculated out the total kinetic energy of a certain weight of bullet spinning at different rates, and then decided that since the calculated energy was not significantly different, there must not be a difference in effect on target?

Or have you actually seen real-world tests done on ballistic gel, or better yet, while actually hunting, comparing the effects of subsonic, expanding bullets at say a 1:7 vs. a 1:3 twist rate? (I have not; I just genuinely don't know.)

And I'm not sure what you mean by extending the barrel?

Yes, for most people this is what I imagine would make this more of a "just for fun/just too cool" round, and not really a practical thing. Still, if you've ever shot subsonic suppressed, you know just how much more pleasant it is, and I can see why someone might want that while hunting, even it's only a luxury. I guess it might actually be practical, too, for people who do nighttime hunting of nuisance animals that travel in herds/packs. Might make it easier to pick off larger numbers at once.

Well i cant speak on 8.6. Haven't looked at many ballistics coefficient charts or tests and what not for 8.6. But for other .338 rounds out there Compared yo 8.6 it is highly underpowered for the size and weight especially at distance shooting, all to keep it subsonic.

Iike you said Barrel twist rate has a huge effect on the target at a certian point it tappers off into negative effects on the bullet it self. I know that a high twist rate puts alot of pressure on the firearm and the round. Higher twist rates can even make a bullet disintegrate in the barrel and definitely affects the accuracy.

As for barrel length it is my understanding that 12" is preferred for 8.6. A Longer barrel would up the velocity of course. I think thats another reason for the 1:3 twist on a shorter barrel to stay subsonic.

So I have made a "personal" conclusion the round is built 100% for the silenced crowd.

Im no Physicist or ballistics expert. So Im curious to see where 8.6 goes in development really.

 

[BigMoose]

Why hate just because you don't see the need? A new and different cartridge can be just because. No reason necessary, because want to is good enough. Leave it alone if it doesn't interest you.

A lot of people are wary of the new flavor of the week cartridge that seems to pop up at each shot show.

New cartridge apears.
Makes a big splash
Enough people buy the rifles that ammo is made
Its expensive so only a few diehards buy it
People forget about it once the next hot new thing comes out.
Old tacticool cartridge stumbles on in zombie mode. Ammo is out there for it, but its got its maximum market penetration.

The two of that list that got the furthest market penetration is 300 blackout, and 6.5 creedmoor.

 

[edwea]

A lot of people are wary of the new flavor of the week cartridge that seems to pop up at each shot show.

New cartridge apears.
Makes a big splash
Enough people buy the rifles that ammo is made
Its expensive so only a few diehards buy it
People forget about it once the next hot new thing comes out.
Old tacticool cartridge stumbles on in zombie mode. Ammo is out there for it, but its got its maximum market penetration.

The two of that list that got the furthest market penetration is 300 blackout, and 6.5 creedmoor.

So what? If nothing else, maybe the splashes they make are enough to get new people into firearms. Maybe they make enough to keep the companies profitable and thus around another year. Nobody's making you buy into it. I don't understand what there is to wary of. Do wildcat cartridges that aren't commercially produced elicit this same response?

 

[BigMoose]

So what? If nothing else, maybe the splashes they make are enough to get new people into firearms. Maybe they make enough to keep the companies profitable and thus around another year. Nobody's making you buy into it. I don't understand what there is to wary of. Do wildcat cartridges that aren't commercially produced elicit this same response?

The cartridge of the week thing has become meme level.

 

[BigMoose]

Like literally the new tacticool cartridge of the moment thing was memed last April 1.

 

[BigMoose]

Now mind you, I think some of these fad tacticool cartridges come about.. Because there is a Communist Heathen (Russian) cartridge that "does that thing", and the AR guys want that.

It certainly seems that 8.6mm Blackout is the western version of the 9X39 sneaky breaky Russian cartridge..

300 blackout? Yeah totally a more AR compatible 7.62x39.

 

[rb288]

Well, I am in the process of building a 12" 8.6blk on an AP sbr'd lower I have.
It will be set up as a suppressed subsonic rifle only.
I will update as it progresses.

 

[Aszerigan]

Well, I am in the process of building a 12" 8.6blk on an AP sbr'd lower I have.
It will be set up as a suppressed subsonic rifle only.
I will update as it progresses.

Good luck! I manufacture this ammo for all my demo / ordered guns so holler if you need any.

 

[GSPBirdDog]

The cartridge of the week thing has become meme level.

Fudds are gonna be fudds...................Then they are the first to complain not seeing any innovative products at SHOT Show. This is proof enough for me on the 8.6 BLK. Velocity is velocity when it comes to wound channel.

 

[Aszerigan]

Fudds are gonna be fudds...................Then they are the first to complain not seeing any innovative products at SHOT Show. This is proof enough for me on the 8.6 BLK. Velocity is velocity when it comes to wound channel.

Love mine. It’s a permanent addition to my line up.

 

[AndreusMaximus]

I can't wait to get mine... just as soon as I win the lottery.

 

[patience0830]

Yeah I think we have the same understanding of what the 8.6 proposed goal is. I personally am not sold because 1:3 twist is insane and has been proven twist rates are marginal with out extending the barrel. I feel they are trying to sell to the (movie quiet silencer crowd) and hoping it catches fire. When hunting, who cares about volume of your shot?

Poachers.