9mm Carbines for home defense

[bwframe]

...JP makes an extremely reliable ar9 that regularly wins competitions where a reliability failure could be the difference between first and last.

Very interesting that you mention that.

I was running a grand master shooter from Alabama yesterday at our state steel championship match. He was shooting a factory JP AR9, with factory ammo.

The rifle fired out of battery splattering us both in the face with case shrapnel and burning powder. (Why we wear eye pro.)

 

[KJQ6945]

The op didn't say anything about an sbr tho. He wanted a hipoint carbine. Somehow this has morphed into $2k plus gun/suppressor suggestions with 400 dollars worth of tax stamps for sbr/suppressors. I highly doubt the op is going to spend more on taxes than his original gun want in the hi point. A 16" ar15 with a telescoping stock is going to be just as maneuverable as a 16 highpoint carbine. The highpoint will weigh more and hold less, conversely a low end 16" ar carbine will hold more ammo, weigh less, and if shopped smartly a suitable used offering could be had at similar pricing to the highpoint. Although I think the 9mm hipoint carbine will be just fine to defend ones home from mikey the methhead and Herschel the heroinhead.

I'll take the blame for diverting it to the SBRs, and my apologies.

My point was, that you can make a PCC way shorter than you can a rifle round gun. Shorter has its advantages if you're having a gunfight in your bedroom in the middle of the night.

 

[Ggreen]

I'll take the blame for diverting it to the SBRs, and my apologies.

My point was, that you can make a PCC way shorter than you can a rifle round gun. Shorter has its advantages if you're having a gunfight in your bedroom in the middle of the night.

Agreed

 

[chatsubobar]

Hi-point came out with a carbine in 10mm, which is always great in case you need to defend your home from bears.

I've heard many things about hi-points, but in general, the guns are indestructible. Their handguns might be *more* indestructible, but the carbines have a great reputation for being solid shooters. They look ugly, they aren't the most ergonomic, but they will have your back when you need them.

If cash is truly an issue, go with the hi-point, and train with it. If you have to stretch to get the Ruger, you won't have as much money needed for the practice ammo *required* for a home defense gun.

 

[Route 45]

Honestly, if my budget was $250-$300 for a home defense gun, I wouldn't be looking at carbines of any caliber. The ballistic advantage, if any, of the longer barrel over a duty sized pistol is irrelevant at pistol velocities. (Assuming 9mm, .40 or .45 ACP) The ONLY carbine at that price point is the Hi-Point, and the low capacity makes it a non-starter for home defense, IMO. They are fun little carbines, I've got one in .40 caliber. But no way I'd choose it first for home defense.

A good pistol is what you need, at that price point. A Ruger 9E or a S&W SD9VE can be found for between $250 and $300 just about anywhere. They are 17 or 18 round capacity and have rails for weapon mounted lights/lasers. The S&W can be equipped with night sights if you save up another $75 or so later, and they use the very common M&P sights. A pistol will obviously be much more maneuverable, should you need to move during a home defense situation. Fits easily in a nightstand, and easily does duty as a carry piece or truck gun.

If you insist on a long gun at $250-$300, I'd suggest a good pump shotgun. A Maverick 88 can be had for around $200 and is a damn good shotgun for the money, made by Mossberg. You are down in capacity to 5 rounds in the tube, but 12 gauge is just a little more effective than a pistol cartridge. Just a little. And you've got money left over for a sidesaddle shell carrier and maybe a rail and low-cost weapon light. 12 gauge is cheap to practice with using birdshot, then shoot a few good defense loads towards the end of your range session. I personally like Federal low-recoil 00 buck for home defense, if I'm gonna use a shotgun.

If you insist on a pistol caliber carbine for serious purposes, you're going to have to spend a little north of $500. Buy once, cry once. The 3 that I would pick from would be:

Freedom Ordnance FX-9. Takes Glock mags. AR style platform. Made in Indiana! I really like mine, and would trust it for home defense.

Ruger PC9. I had one of the old models and liked it, but the new ones take Glock mags and are takedown style. Very good feel to them, but I haven't shot the new one yet.

Beretta Storm CX4. Had one. Sold it. That was dumb. A sweet shooter, and you can get the model that takes very inexpensive Beretta 92 mags. I might pick up another one someday.

Good luck!

 

[Hohn]

Better ballistics aren't the point of the carbine. The point is better accuracy of aimed fire. I don't think it's even debatable that a long gun shouldered can be fired far more accurately than a handgun.

And for me, the reason for pistol caliber vs rifle caliber boils down to muzzle blast. There's no centerfire rifle or shotgun you can shoot indoors that won't stun you and risk taking you out of a fight or disorienting you. In a small room, the concussive blast is nearly overwhelming from any rifle or shotgun. The shorter the barrel, the worse it is. A 10.5" 5.56 is absolutely vicious on muzzle blast indoors.

Or are we assuming we're going to be donning eyes and ears before we take defensive action? I doubt that taking that time is wise.

Saving your life only to have permanent hearing damage isn't a win. There are other ways to save your life and give your ears a chance at surviving.

 

[Hohn]

I've seen some pretty nasty malfunctions with pumps, last one the guy hammered the pump down with a block of wood. My ar15's have all proven very reliable, even budget built ones. The hipoint has a reputation for being reliable and soft shooting. I think confidence in the hd weapon is key, and that includes confidence of anyone else who may need to use it. My wife would flinch major with a shotgun, but my ar45 is like shooting a 22, even with just a kak brace. There are a million things to consider when choosing an hd weapon, just gotta go with what fits your individual needs. My 300blk pistol and rifle are both probably better choices in my case.

Not to mention that high probability of user error in short-shucking when pumped with adrenaline. Bad idea, depending on dexterity in a fight.

That's why I think for HD a gun must be super simple and, like draw and fire. That means a DA revolver or a TDA auto (stored chambered) or similar. I don't even like the idea of having to flick off a safety under duress. Yes, training blah blah. But as Mike Tyson said, everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth. A manual safety is an unnecessary complication.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

There's no centerfire rifle or shotgun you can shoot indoors that won't stun you and risk taking you out of a fight or disorienting you. In a small room, the concussive blast is nearly overwhelming from any rifle or shotgun.

No, complete myth right up there with firing inside a car will blow the windows out. You can fire an AR inside a car, about the smallest "room" you can find, with no stunning or disorientation. I've had countless cases of people firing long guns in confined quarters. Zero have reported anything more than ringing in their ears and even that is not universal.

[video=youtube;48s4b6Y9oeA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48s4b6Y9oeA[/video]



Even inside a car with the windshield directing blast back at you, no.

 

[SwiftStorm]

I first purchased a sub200 which will always hold a special place. Little heavy on the recoil. Recently, I purchased CZ EVO S3 pistol with folding stock. This is a dream that can be shot all day. No brainer...CZ EVO in pistol form.

 

[Route 45]

Better ballistics aren't the point of the carbine. The point is better accuracy of aimed fire. I don't think it's even debatable that a long gun shouldered can be fired far more accurately than a handgun.

The point of the thread is a $250 Hi-Point carbine and its suitability for home defense. There is also no debate about whether 18 rounds is better than 9 or 10, and at across-the-room distances, I'm not sure that the bulk of a carbine is an advantage if you have to move through the house to get to the threat. I know that conventional wisdom is to stay in place and defend, but if I hear glass breaking at 2:00 am and hear my kid screaming from across the house, I'm moving to the threat. And a handgun is much easy to maneuver with than anything but the shortest of carbines. Which, by the way, does not include the Hi-Point.

Someone will be along shortly to recommend a $2000 SBR, no doubt.

 

[Ggreen]

Beretta Storm CX4. Had one. Sold it. That was dumb. A sweet shooter, and you can get the model that takes very inexpensive Beretta 92 mags. I might pick up another one someday.

Good luck!

I like mine, but I'm not overly impressed with a few features that would be important in an hd situation. first and foremost is the safety nearly requires a hammer to beat it out of the safe detent, I kid but for real it's tight. I've been working mine over and over to try and smooth it out for shooting pcc in steel challenge, but it remains extremely tight. I got mine used with 5 mags with factory px4 magazines with factory 20rd extensions. I believe I paid 550 and it is truly worth every penny. Great used deals on them.

And for me, the reason for pistol caliber vs rifle caliber boils down to muzzle blast. There's no centerfire rifle or shotgun you can shoot indoors that won't stun you and risk taking you out of a fight or disorienting you. In a small room, the concussive blast is nearly overwhelming from any rifle or shotgun. The shorter the barrel, the worse it is. A 10.5" 5.56 is absolutely vicious on muzzle blast indoors.

Or are we assuming we're going to be donning eyes and ears before we take defensive action? I doubt that taking that time is wise.

Saving your life only to have permanent hearing damage isn't a win. There are other ways to save your life and give your ears a chance at surviving.

I've shot a 50 Beowulf with a 16" barrel from inside a shed, and it wasn't terrible. We also ran my 5.56 and 300blk while we were out playing, non were too brutal. The Beowulf is a mean bit#@ tho, you definitely felt it in your sinuses. The 300blk was and is my favorite cqb ar15 round. Sub sonics are like shooting a 45, and I've got a 45acp to compare it to. Now that I'm a dad I made the investment in a suppressor to run on my hd gun whether I go with the 45 or the 300blk. I wouldn't want to expose my baby to any indoor gunfire, but rifles are usable indoors.

Not to mention that high probability of user error in short-shucking when pumped with adrenaline. Bad idea, depending on dexterity in a fight.

That's why I think for HD a gun must be super simple and, like draw and fire. That means a DA revolver or a TDA auto (stored chambered) or similar. I don't even like the idea of having to flick off a safety under duress. Yes, training blah blah. But as Mike Tyson said, everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth. A manual safety is an unnecessary complication.

My semi auto shotgun is about as easy as it gets, even has the safety extension that makes it almost instinctual to disarm the safety, easier than an ar imo. Still, shotguns are unwieldy compared to the other options we have with pcc's and ar15's. Lighter, faster, and easier to manipulate I will keep the shotty in the safe, unless there is a reason to prepare the home for something (doubtful)

I first purchased a sub200 which will always hold a special place. Little heavy on the recoil. Recently, I purchased CZ EVO S3 pistol with folding stock. This is a dream that can be shot all day. No brainer...CZ EVO in pistol form.

I could not believe the kick the sub2k had, mine was easily as hard on the shoulder as a 12ga.

Someone will be along shortly to recommend a $2000 SBR, no doubt.

Been there lol, we were even into double stamp sbr's with suppressors for a page or two lol.

 

[Ggreen]

Very interesting that you mention that.

I was running a grand master shooter from Alabama yesterday at our state steel championship match. He was shooting a factory JP AR9, with factory ammo.

The rifle fired out of battery splattering us both in the face with case shrapnel and burning powder. (Why we wear eye pro.)

Exception that proves the rule. Things can go south fast when your shooting fast.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I'm not sure that the bulk of a carbine is an advantage if you have to move through the house to get to the threat.

I've cleared a lot of spaces with a long gun. It's not a big deal. The extra length from a carbine vs an extended arms+pistol conventional grip isn't very much. Avoid muzzle devices that are grabby and use decent technique and you're fine.

 

[Mgderf]

I grew up with a Mossberg 500 in my hands.
Even with an 18" barrel I would not feel uncomfortable using one to clear a house.
It's all a matter of what you're used to using.

The finest match pistol isn't much help if you don't train with it.

 

[KJQ6945]

The point of the thread is a $250 Hi-Point carbine and its suitability for home defense. There is also no debate about whether 18 rounds is better than 9 or 10, and at across-the-room distances, I'm not sure that the bulk of a carbine is an advantage if you have to move through the house to get to the threat. I know that conventional wisdom is to stay in place and defend, but if I hear glass breaking at 2:00 am and hear my kid screaming from across the house, I'm moving to the threat. And a handgun is much easy to maneuver with than anything but the shortest of carbines. Which, by the way, does not include the Hi-Point.

Someone will be along shortly to recommend a $2000 SBR, no doubt.

Dont be hateful, I'm still here.

Might i suggest an MP5? And remember boys and girls, you can't put a price on defense.

 

[Route 45]

Dont be hateful, I'm still here.

Might i suggest an MP5? And remember boys and girls, you can't put a price on defense.

Well if price is no object, how about a phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range?

[video=youtube;BdjdpoqITXk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdjdpoqITXk[/video]

 

[KJQ6945]

Well if price is no object, how about a phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range?

[video=youtube;BdjdpoqITXk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdjdpoqITXk[/video]

Now you're talking!

 

[KJQ6945]

He did say the Uzi SBR was ideal for home defense. It's settled! Listen to the dead guy.

 

[Floivanus]

Dont be hateful, I'm still here.

Might i suggest an MP5? And remember boys and girls, you can't put a price on defense.

Surely you don’t jest.

I’ve shot my MP5 and a normal blowback 9mm side by side and far and away the mp5 was a much smoother, lighter recoiling and controllable firearm.

quite a bit of overtime went into that purchase tho

 

[dbrier]

I like mine, but I'm not overly impressed with a few features that would be important in an hd situation. first and foremost is the safety nearly requires a hammer to beat it out of the safe detent, I kid but for real it's tight. I've been working mine over and over to try and smooth it out for shooting pcc in steel challenge, but it remains extremely tight. I got mine used with 5 mags with factory px4 magazines with factory 20rd extensions. I believe I paid 550 and it is truly worth every penny. Great used deals on them.

I have a CX4 that I love. You can fix the safety with just a little grinding on the center hump when you have the safety out. Mine is much better after a little work.

I like the Cx4 for home use because it's much shorter than other typical 16" barrel rifles. It's light and easy to handle.
A handgun light/laser will fit the side rails up front while adding almost no weight.