9mm Carbines for home defense

[Tyler-The-Piker]

20rd mag of 50gr JHP .223, 7.5" wylde barrel, Krinkov style brake. I pray I never have to use it inside my home but I feel confident in that if I do

 

[STEEL CORE]

I have a Colt 6430 I could use, but if my home defense Glock-22 cannot handle the situation, breaking out a 32 rd 9mm rifle (IMHO) would be too late. If I was in the country with back up a ways away, a .223 would be my choice of rifle.

 

[Tsssst]

I shot my first ever PCCs this weekend. One was a JP gm4 or something or other, a $1500-or-something competition gun and the other was a CZ Scorpion... Both were damn enjoyable. Neither in my budget anywhere in the near future but I liked them.

 

[KG1]

I used to have a Hi-point carbine years ago and it was fun to shoot and did'nt have any problems with it. For the money it was acceptable. I don't currently run a 9mm PCC. I do have at the moment a 9mm ak style pistol that I've been having some fun with that has adapters for beretta and glock mags. It's pretty much setup like the one pictured here with the SB brace and i'm running a Jpoint4 reflex sight. I like it so far.

 

[KJQ6945]

Pistol caliber, because sometimes, smaller is better.

A size comparison
16" Colt
10.3" Colt
MP5 A2 stock
UMP
MPX

All stocks are collapsed/folded

 

[KJQ6945]

Stocks open and suppressed

 

[Leadeye]

Good looking collection of evil black guns.

 

[KJQ6945]

Good looking collection of evil black guns.

Thank you sir. I put a brown one in there for you. It's almost like wood.

 

[KJQ6945]

A lot of posters have suggested 5.56 over 9mm for home defense. It has its advantages, but they are all ballistic. Physical advantages go to 9mm. It's just smaller, and works out of shorter barrel. That was the purpose of the above pictures.
All guns pictured will accept 30 round mags, so that part is equal.

The ARs are about 3 times the velocity at 1/3 the weight of sub sonic 9mm. Barrel length makes a lot of difference in the ARs. The AR gets its advantage from the velocity that it gains from the longer barrel. But, the shorter the barrel, the velocity drops off, and we add muzzle flash, and overpressure.

To defeat the flash and the over pressure, you have to add a suppressor. That puts a 10.3" SBR back to even with 16" rifle length.

The 9mm is designed for a pistol with 4" barrel. The velocity gains for a longer barrel are minimal. The main advantage is maneuverability, and the ability to suppress, neither of which can be done by a 5.56.

All tools have a purpose, pick the proper hammer for the task at hand.

 

[osbornk]

That looks pretty sweet, if I already had a glock, I'd get one.



Yeah, problem is I read that Hi-point firing pins routinely get bent in the 9mm carbines. Especially when you insult their intelligence. But seriously, I've read enough that I don't think I could trust my life to it. I feel it's too much of a gamble.

I've been a member of the Hi-Point forum for years when I bought a C9 as my first handgun. I bought my a Hi-Point 995TS a few months ago and it has been dead reliable and it is accurate. Following the forum, bent firing pins aren't a problem and are seldom mentioned. Most of the mis-information about Hi-Points seem to come from gun snobs. Based on my experience and the forums, they are remarkably reliable. I would trust one for home defense without reservation.

 

[Spike Jones 5 2002]

I paid $200 for my Hi Point 9mm. my only complaint is the single stack mags.
I paid $2000 for my Kriss 45. More problems than it is worth.

 

[Hohn]

A lot of posters have suggested 5.56 over 9mm for home defense. It has its advantages, but they are all ballistic. Physical advantages go to 9mm. It's just smaller, and works out of shorter barrel. That was the purpose of the above pictures.
All guns pictured will accept 30 round mags, so that part is equal.

The ARs are about 3 times the velocity at 1/3 the weight of sub sonic 9mm. Barrel length makes a lot of difference in the ARs. The AR gets its advantage from the velocity that it gains from the longer barrel. But, the shorter the barrel, the velocity drops off, and we add muzzle flash, and overpressure.

To defeat the flash and the over pressure, you have to add a suppressor. That puts a 10.3" SBR back to even with 16" rifle length.

The 9mm is designed for a pistol with 4" barrel. The velocity gains for a longer barrel are minimal. The main advantage is maneuverability, and the ability to suppress, neither of which can be done by a 5.56.

All tools have a purpose, pick the proper hammer for the task at hand.

QFT

It's like a hot .357 from a snub. All blast and recoil, very little actual performance gain. 5.56 in a short barrel is an inherent mismatch from trying to make a short CQB rounds from something never intended for it.

300BLK is another matter.

The shorter the range, the more you want a bigger and slower bullet.

 

[bwframe]

My , as an owner and competition shooter of two 9mm carbines. 9mm carbine is fine for home defense, but why? Saying that one already has a 9mm for carry that they practice/train with, why fool with everything involved in making a 9mm carbine a home defense weapon?

9mm carbine IS an excellent package, if it duplicates your real rifle caliber carbine. For training and competition to learn and practice the details of hands on defensive rifle handing IMHO it is a great way to go.

 

[Ggreen]

The op didn't say anything about an sbr tho. He wanted a hipoint carbine. Somehow this has morphed into $2k plus gun/suppressor suggestions with 400 dollars worth of tax stamps for sbr/suppressors. I highly doubt the op is going to spend more on taxes than his original gun want in the hi point. A 16" ar15 with a telescoping stock is going to be just as maneuverable as a 16 highpoint carbine. The highpoint will weigh more and hold less, conversely a low end 16" ar carbine will hold more ammo, weigh less, and if shopped smartly a suitable used offering could be had at similar pricing to the highpoint. Although I think the 9mm hipoint carbine will be just fine to defend ones home from mikey the methhead and Herschel the heroinhead.

 

[GNRPowdeR]

The op didn't say anything about an sbr tho. He wanted a hipoint carbine. Somehow this has morphed into $2k plus gun/suppressor suggestions with 400 dollars worth of tax stamps for sbr/suppressors. I highly doubt the op is going to spend more on taxes than his original gun want in the hi point.

I'm glad I wasn't the only one wondering about this...

Still, if I'd be looking for a carbine / longer pistol to defend my urban home, yet only had around $500 to do it (firearm only), then I'd be torn between the AR in 556 and the Hi-Point in 9mm or a Kel-Tec Sub2k in 9mm. The AR has a ballistic advantage for distance, but I'd be using it in my urban home. The Hi-Point is the least expensive, but has the least capacity of my suggested options (and the mags are hot garbage). The Kel-Tec Sub2k has a track record of reliability, can use Glock mags (depending on the model), and can be folded in half for a more compact package during storage.

 

[Ggreen]

I'm glad I wasn't the only one wondering about this...

Still, if I'd be looking for a carbine / longer pistol to defend my urban home, yet only had around $500 to do it (firearm only), then I'd be torn between the AR in 556 and the Hi-Point in 9mm or a Kel-Tec Sub2k in 9mm. The AR has a ballistic advantage for distance, but I'd be using it in my urban home. The Hi-Point is the least expensive, but has the least capacity of my suggested options (and the mags are hot garbage). The Kel-Tec Sub2k has a track record of reliability, can use Glock mags (depending on the model), and can be folded in half for a more compact package during storage.

Give me a hipoint of a sub2k anyday. Ergonomics like a cinderblock and was like shooting a 2x4 that was getting kicked by an angry mule(not that hard, but it left bruises on all 4 of us that shot it). Mine may have been a lemon. The only thing I liked about my sub2k was that it sold for what I bought it for minus taxes. I demand that my guns be fun, even my hd set ups.

 

[GNRPowdeR]

Give me a hipoint of a sub2k anyday. Ergonomics like a cinderblock and was like shooting a 2x4 that was getting kicked by an angry mule(not that hard, but it left bruises on all 4 of us that shot it). Mine may have been a lemon. The only thing I liked about my sub2k was that it sold for what I bought it for minus taxes. I demand that my guns be fun, even my hd set ups.

For my HD or EDC gear, I prefer reliability vs comfort. Reliability is a pump SG, but if I had an AR9 with a can that I had proven out for reliability, I'd consider it a good HD option.

 

[Ggreen]

For my HD or EDC gear, I prefer reliability vs comfort. Reliability is a pump SG, but if I had an AR9 with a can that I had proven out for reliability, I'd consider it a good HD option.

I've seen some pretty nasty malfunctions with pumps, last one the guy hammered the pump down with a block of wood. My ar15's have all proven very reliable, even budget built ones. The hipoint has a reputation for being reliable and soft shooting. I think confidence in the hd weapon is key, and that includes confidence of anyone else who may need to use it. My wife would flinch major with a shotgun, but my ar45 is like shooting a 22, even with just a kak brace. There are a million things to consider when choosing an hd weapon, just gotta go with what fits your individual needs. My 300blk pistol and rifle are both probably better choices in my case.

 

[bwframe]

I wonder if an AR9 could be called ultimately completely reliable? Self defense reliable?

The AR platform had to be heavily adapted to run pistol caliber rounds. It was not designed for that. Unless I'm mistaken, I believe they will all fire out of battery as part of the adaptation. It's rare, but does happen with plenty enough frequency to be reported.

 

[Ggreen]

my 45acp ar runs on a gas system. An extremely short gas system, but it operates in battery. It had a reliability issue due to the gas tube needing to be shortened to keep it from seizing up in the gas key on the bcg. JP makes an extremely reliable ar9 that regularly wins competitions where a reliability failure could be the difference between first and last.