9mm or .357

[crispy]

gel.....and denim. The purpose of 357 sig, to penetrate and stop the target. Windshield, sheet metal, light body armor, etc.....that is what 357 sig will do for you, and still stop the target.....sorry, but 9mm won't do that the same way.

also, I won't trust anything from "ar15.com"......I wonder why they didn't compare the damage of the 30 carbine vs 5.56

Human tissue analog and clothes. You having to shoot through windshields or body armor is 1000 less likely than another person and that is unlikely.

If you actually read the report, you'll see where they got their data.

The 9mm worked just as well as the .357 Sig. I'm sorry that doesn't fit with your preconceived notions, but them's the facts...

 

[Yamaha]

Human tissue analog and clothes. You having to shoot through windshields or body armor is 1000 less likely than another person and that is unlikely.

If you actually read the report, you'll see where they got their data.

The 9mm worked just as well as the .357 Sig. I'm sorry that doesn't fit with your preconceived notions, but them's the facts...

Well, the point is..."thems aren't the facts". Please see simple physics, mass and velocity combine to provide energy at the point of impact. With your "facts" page, please view the gel. Every round, including 45, made it 12". Take note of the cavities, the 357 is much larger than the 9mm. Why one might ask? Because of velocity. More energy on target is better.



to the OP, stick with 357sig and get a .40s&w barrel for target shooting if you are shooting often. If not, enjoy the 357. Last 100rds of fmj's I bought were $12 for 50.....a month ago

 

[crispy]

A minute ago it was penetration, now penetration is the same, so we're back to wound cavities? You're talking in circles.

The part that is bigger is not the wound cavities but the shock waves through the gel. The wounds would be equivalent to the size of the expanded bullet. Which were not surprisingly, all about the same...

You came to the exact opposite conclusion than the authors did. All without experiments or testing or anything. I don't know why we mess with stuff like "facts'...

 

[jeremy]

The part that is bigger is not the wound cavities but the shock waves through the gel. The wounds would be equivalent to the size of the expanded bullet. Which were not surprisingly, all about the same...

Actually this is were I have to throw in my .02...
The wounds will not be just what the expanded bullet path is. It will also be large amount of the soft tissue around the pathway.

You came to the exact opposite conclusion than the authors did. All without experiments or testing or anything. I don't know why we mess with stuff like "facts'...

I have seen that data from Arfcom before. There are also stats and data sets out there that will give the exact opposite results. Facts are what the compiler wants to show a lot of times.

Shoot what you have faith in doing the results that you want. 9mm from my own experiences does not do that for me. The caveat to that sentence is I have never had the Privilege to use hand-loads to engage a target, only factory loads...



P.S. 9mm is to 357 Sig what 38 Spl is to 357 Magnum...

 

[Bluedragon]

Being the 357 Sig has sharper recoil, costs more, and is somewhat harder to find then 9mm...well I vote 9mm.

But then again I really like the 9mm.. so maybe I am not being fair.

 

[crispy]

I don't really care what the OP buys. Doesn't affect me in any way. He asked. I offered. But please, go buy a .357 Sig.

But EVERY scientific study I've ever read shows that the performance characteristics of 9mm when compared to .357 Sig or .40 S&W is at least 90% as good. Usually closer to 95%. Just like this one with actual data and photographs of penetration and expansion.

There's just no reason for people to mislead. Poo-pahing ballistic gel and denim? Why would you do that? That's what you test with! Actual data is better than anecdotes about windshields and body armor...

 

[01deuce]

How could you not want a .357 sig ?

 

[Sailor]

Pick one caliber, with a proven reliable gun.

Spend your money on training.

 

[8th SPS USAF]

9mm/357

The MP 9c and 40c are great guns. I have the 9c and it shoots very well.
Had a 40c traded to get a MP 45c. I should have traded the 9c and kept
the 40c and bought the 40/9 conv bbl. I do not reload 357 (SIG) but
heard it is harder to load if you are going to reload, if not 9mm are on
sale most times Local Big store has 9mm on sale for under $10 box.
I almost never see 357 ammo on sale., either 357 mag/or Sig

 

[dom1104]

I would get a 9mm for a first gun, then an identical .40 or .357 for your second one.

The .357 is only a couple hundred fps faster than the 9mm, however in real shootings that has proved to make an noticable difference.

If I had to stand up and get shot in the chest with a 9mm or a .357, I would pick the 9mm every time.

Thats just how it is.

Also, anyone who says the .357 is harder to shoot than a 9, has never shot the .357. It is one of the easiest rounds to shoot well and fast, that recoil snaps the gun back on target like nobodies business.

I have a 9mm M&P, a .40cal gun w/ 357 conversion is next on my list.

Will be nice to have a use for all that .40 brass I pickup at the range too.

 

[Daniel686]

Yeah go with the 9mm! Big price and availability difference. Or you could get a .357 mag. snub nose and sleep well at night!

 

[U.S. Patriot]

 

[U.S. Patriot]

Something you have to consider is deflection. Vehicle windshields are not vertical, they are slanted. So, you have to take the angle into consideration, along with the angle of the round when it hits a barrier. Look at modern tanks, they all use slanted amour for a reason. Rounds do not penetrate as easily. Obviously, just as in handguns, the round used makes a difference in penetration. We are not talking rifle rounds that travel -+ 3,000 FPS.

 

[rimfire_crazed]

ugh. necro-thread.

 

[Rob377]

I'm not sure what the point of resurrecting a 5 month old thread was....
But since it's here.....
357 Sig is a pretty sweet cartridge. But it is somewhat of a PITA to find locally. If I didn't enjoy reloading, I'd go for the 9mm.

<carries M&P357.

Oh, and the M&P357 is being discontinued, so if the OP hasn't bought one in the last 5 months, he'd better get on it!

 

[csmith]

Are the conversion kits to go from 40 to 357 sig made by smith? I'm interested in one and don't know much about them.

 

[Rob377]

Are the conversion kits to go from 40 to 357 sig made by smith? I'm interested in one and don't know much about them.

All ya need is a 357 sig barrel. Can find them all over the interweb. The S&W factory ones are pretty cheap too.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=339103

 

[686 Shooter]

Now my two cents, there has been a lot of talk in this thread about shooting through windshields and body armor. I personally don’t care if a round can or can’t penetrate a windshield, I won’t be shooting through any windshields or body armor. I’m just a simple guy, I like to shoot at targets, they never shoot back, they don’t wear body armor and they almost never drive, so I’ll probably never have to shoot at them through the windshield. My advice is to buy the gun you can afford and afford the ammo to shoot it, shoot the gun a lot and become comfortable with it. If the gun is going to be used for defense, just being able to place the shot in a vital area will put you ahead in the game. I’m not saying that you will never shoot someone through a windshield, but the odds are against it. If you ever do have to use your weapon in a defensive situation, mindset and the ability to stay on target, nothing else will matter if you freeze or can’t hit what you aim at. And as a final note, if you do choose a gun that won’t penetrate a windshield, play it safe a carry a brick also, throw the brick through the windshield and shoot through the hole.

 

[LuckyGunner]

I like the 357 Sig. I don't like it enough to pay the difference in ammo between it and the 9mm.

While the 357 Sig is better on paper. I prefer to get more rounds per dollar and just be more proficient of a shooter.

__________________
handgun ammo

 

[RealTree]

9mm because its all about practice and shot placement...cheaper to practice = better shot placement