9mm vs 40 S&W vs 45acp

[Mgderf]

I just bought a 1911, but in 10mm.
So what does that say?

 

[TheDude]

My eyes hurt!!

 

[busted1200]

I just bought a 1911, but in 10mm.
So what does that say?

That say's your a badass!

 

[NHT3]

In my opinion, if the 40 S&W guns and ammo were sold at the same price as the 9mm, the 9mm would have died off years ago. Finally after 30 years the price of 40 S&W is coming more in line with 9mm. Just too late in the game, the 40 S&W missed a huge opportunity to become the main weapon of the US military, police and LTCH guys. Great round, just not marketed correctly.

Exactly what I said about 45 GAP but most people don't agree with either of us. Simple fact is that with the new technology in bullets a 9MM is adequate for any task 99% of people require of a pistol, It's also milder recoil and the cheapest centerfire to practice with.

[FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member, [/FONT]Basic Pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] / RSO[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]"Under pressure, you don't rise to the occasion, you sink to the level of your training. That's why we train so hard" [/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Unnamed Navy Seal[/FONT][FONT=&amp]
“Ego is the reason many men do not shoot competition. They don't want to suck in public”

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Aron Bright[/FONT]

 

[Sling10mm]

I think I get the gist of the post... shoot what you can shoot well. If that is the point, I have to agree.

Also, I just purchased a 1911 in 10mm today as well. AllenM is the man, and I can't wait to shoot this thing. I'll post about it later.

 

[Captaincrunk]

In my opinion, if the 40 S&W guns and ammo were sold at the same price as the 9mm, the 9mm would have died off years ago. Finally after 30 years the price of 40 S&W is coming more in line with 9mm. Just too late in the game, the 40 S&W missed a huge opportunity to become the main weapon of the US military, police and LTCH guys. Great round, just not marketed correctly.

9mm does everything .40 does with less kick

 

[churchmouse]

9mm does everything .40 does with less kick

I disagree.
Having done a very "Non-Scientific" between calibers 9mm, .40 and .45 ACP (all ball rounds) We found that .40 hits a whole lot harder than 9mm.

 

[mcapo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTTDgZZZFa0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaKiPRcWX90

This reflects my very limited real world experience.

40 hits harder than 9. 45 hits harder than 40 - sort of - with about a dozen caveats.

Again, the answer is 357 mag. :-)

 

[churchmouse]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTTDgZZZFa0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaKiPRcWX90

This reflects my very limited real world experience.

40 hits harder than 9. 45 hits harder than 40 - sort of - with about a dozen caveats.

Again, the answer is 357 mag. :-)

I love your take on it. Of course .357.....

We had several pieces of cold rolled 3/16ths plate steel.
We made a nice rack and hung them all in the same manner.
I did not own a 9mm at that time so a friend came along with his.
We picked like and same ball in all calibers.
I ran my 1911 my SIL ran his 40 and my buddy ran his 9mm. 100 rounds each.

Now, when I say the 9mm was seriously puny by comparison I mean no knock on the fan base. It left splatter marks on the plate with no real damage. None.
.40 ball has a flat nose and it left a pock mark/dent the exact size of the nose with every strike and really moved the plate. The 9mm barely effected the plate as to movement.
The .45 ACP actually beat the plate into a concave shape. Not deep but very noticeable. No real dents just a re-shape on the plate. We flipped it over and beat it back the other way.

This was standard cold roll steel plate. Nothing magic.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I love your take on it. Of course .357.....

We had several pieces of cold rolled 3/16ths plate steel.
We made a nice rack and hung them all in the same manner.
I did not own a 9mm at that time so a friend came along with his.
We picked like and same ball in all calibers.
I ran my 1911 my SIL ran his 40 and my buddy ran his 9mm. 100 rounds each.

Now, when I say the 9mm was seriously puny by comparison I mean no knock on the fan base. It left splatter marks on the plate with no real damage. None.
.40 ball has a flat nose and it left a pock mark/dent the exact size of the nose with every strike and really moved the plate. The 9mm barely effected the plate as to movement.
The .45 ACP actually beat the plate into a concave shape. Not deep but very noticeable. No real dents just a re-shape on the plate. We flipped it over and beat it back the other way.

This was standard cold roll steel plate. Nothing magic.

And what that tells you is how that particular bullet reacts to that particular steel. If your goal is denting steel with bulk ball ammo, then it's a valid test of capabilities. If your goal is something else, then it's just a fun afternoon.

 

[Falschirmjaeger]

This 9 versus .40 versus .45 debate really is an apples to oranges to peaches type of thing. Each caliber has its advantages and disadvantages depending on what your particular use happens to be. For weekly range plinking, it's hard to beat 9mm if nothing else because of cost savings and (generally) a more pleasant recoil experience over .40s and .45s, depending on platform and other factors.

For pure self defense at typical close-in range, in my view, it's tough to disregard the .45 for its knock-down power, even if on typical platforms you'll have lower mag capacity than similarly sized 9s or .40s. Even on this, plenty of people disagree, as the multiple available self defense loads for 9 and .40 have closed the perceived gap in performance versus the .45. Anyway, I love range work with my .45s, too, even if they are pricier to shoot.

As for the 9 versus .40, much has been written about the FBI's reasoning in switching to 9. See, for example:
9mm vs. .40 Caliber - Article - POLICE Magazine
https://www.policeone.com/police-pr...vs-40-caliber-How-do-the-cartridges-stack-up/

As for me, I also enjoy shooting both 9 and .40, and I hope that as more departments and agencies follow the FBI's lead in switching over that we'll see a glut of LEO .40s (and ammo) on the market with lower prices for all of us. We shall see.

 

[Expat]

I love your take on it. Of course .357.....

We had several pieces of cold rolled 3/16ths plate steel.
We made a nice rack and hung them all in the same manner.
I did not own a 9mm at that time so a friend came along with his.
We picked like and same ball in all calibers.
I ran my 1911 my SIL ran his 40 and my buddy ran his 9mm. 100 rounds each.

Now, when I say the 9mm was seriously puny by comparison I mean no knock on the fan base. It left splatter marks on the plate with no real damage. None.
.40 ball has a flat nose and it left a pock mark/dent the exact size of the nose with every strike and really moved the plate. The 9mm barely effected the plate as to movement.
The .45 ACP actually beat the plate into a concave shape. Not deep but very noticeable. No real dents just a re-shape on the plate. We flipped it over and beat it back the other way.

This was standard cold roll steel plate. Nothing magic.

That reminds of a show I watched hosted by R. Lee Ermy. They were shooting various calibers into ballistic gelatin. The penetration is all people want to talk about but I was really surprised by the reaction of the blocks to the shots fired. The 9mm caused very little reaction. The .45 really rocked the gelatin. He then shot it with a .44 and it knocked it off the table. I know the experts all say that such things have no meaning, but to me, an ignorant amateur, it looked like quite a difference to me.

 

[phylodog]

That reminds of a show I watched hosted by R. Lee Ermy. They were shooting various calibers into ballistic gelatin. The penetration is all people want to talk about but I was really surprised by the reaction of the blocks to the shots fired. The 9mm caused very little reaction. The .45 really rocked the gelatin. He then shot it with a .44 and it knocked it off the table. I know the experts all say that such things have no meaning, but to me, an ignorant amateur, it looked like quite a difference to me.

It is a pretty good difference but what you are seeing is basically the opposite end of the recoil rather than any measure of meaningful damage potential. Imagine throwing a grape as hard as you can at a block of gelatin then doing the same with a baseball. There will be a significant difference in the reaction of the gelatin but the difference in meaningful damage is insignificant (if we're trying to stop someone).

 

[Expat]

It is a pretty good difference but what you are seeing is basically the opposite end of the recoil rather than any measure of meaningful damage potential. Imagine throwing a grape as hard as you can at a block of gelatin then doing the same with a baseball. There will be a significant difference in the reaction of the gelatin but the difference in meaningful damage is insignificant (if we're trying to stop someone).

But still, to an uneducated amateur, I would think a baseball to my face would be more disconcerting than a grape to the face even if the real damage was similar. It seems like the person would need a little more recovery time or something since in a way not only were they pierced, they effectively also got a punch.

 

[223 Gunner]

I like STI and I like 1911's, I just don't like railed 1911's. It sounds like you are happy with your purchase, and you're enjoying it, which you should be.
As far as .40, yep have a couple. 9MM have those too, and .45acp and three .44 mags. I like guns and I like to shoot too.

Smith Pro Series 1911 .45acp

Smith Performance Center .44 Mag.

Welcome to INGO, we like guns too................................

 

[KellyinAvon]

Wanting to get 50 posts? Get in the middle of a caliber war argument. Maybe combine that with a discussion on paragraph usage

 

[223 Gunner]

Wanting to get 50 posts? Get in the middle of a caliber war argument. Maybe combine that with a discussion on paragraph usage

I'm not sure that is his goal, with a post that long, not your typical "runner"

 

[mcapo]

Kinetic Energy equals (.5)Mass times Velocity(2). You just can't get around physics.

The steel plate test deomstrated Kinetic energy. 45 acp shows the effect of high mass; while 40 showed the effect of the mid point of mass-velocity. 9mm showed exactly what the formula above indicated.

What happens when a soft target is struck, instead of steel, gets into all kinds of variables not limited to ballistic efficiency of bullet, design of bullet, materials, etc.

If I was LEO or military, I might prefer the balance that 40SW offers between round count, stopping power, expansion characteristics and available weapons. But agencies have to figure how to get every size person and capabilities to be qualified and, for that reason, I see the advantages of 9mm AND of 40.

 

[mcapo]

I like STI and I like 1911's, I just don't like railed 1911's. It sounds like you are happy with your purchase, and you're enjoying it, which you should be.
As far as .40, yep have a couple. 9MM have those too, and .45acp and three .44 mags. I like guns and I like to shoot too.

Smith Pro Series 1911 .45acp

Smith Performance Center .44 Mag.

Welcome to INGO, we like guns too................................

 

[phylodog]

But still, to an uneducated amateur, I would think a baseball to my face would be more disconcerting than a grape to the face even if the real damage was similar. It seems like the person would need a little more recovery time or something since in a way not only were they pierced, they effectively also got a punch.

Sure but being disconcerted isn't much of a deterrent to someone hell bent on killing you. We've had a few of our SWAT officers shot with handguns (arm & leg hits) in the past several years, all of them continued to perform their roles and sought treatment after things were under control. Handgun rounds suck, the difference between the suck of a 9mm versus the suck of a .45 isn't worth fretting over.