Adam Mueller Faces 21 Years In Jail After Reporting School Police Brutality

[Denny347]

I will grant you that the video was not of the best quality but given the circumstances, any scuffle indicates a response which was excessive for the circumstances.

As far as I am concerned the use of police particularly involving situations which do not warrant police involvement accomplishes nothing but training children to be subservient to JBTs. One would have thought a stern admonition to quit pestering his sister would have been sufficient. In case anyone including and especially the school administration and the police failed to notice, sibling nonsense has been going on since the advent of the human race. Now, why is this happening?

Yeah, there is WAY too little info to pass judgement. I've had to take kids down to the ground before on BS runs but they decided to act a fool.

 

[Rookie]

They tried to NOT involve police...
From my understanding of the story.
-Brother takes sisters purse, against her wishes
-Somehow school administrators are notified of the taken purse
-School officials, without an officer, tell the kid to give them the purse so they can return it.
-Brother won't give purse to administrators, telling them I'll give it to her myself
-Administrators then go and get the SRO
-SRO arrives, takes purse, and administrators tell the brother he suspended meaning its time to GTFO of their school.
-Officer lifts brother, an an obvious struggle ensues, he is then slammed against a table to get control.

What's the issue? I get the sibling thing, but at the point the brother refuses to give back the purse (when the officer wasn't present), then what happens? Are the school officials simply going to let a student keep the purse and call it a day? That kid could have simply given back the purse and that would have been the end of it; no suspension, no slammed into a table. He decided he wanted to challenge people over a piece of property that he neither owned nor was entitled to posses. That typically doesnt work out well.

My only question is:

At what point did they decide to involve the parents?

 

[Denny347]

My only question is:

At what point did they decide to involve the parents?

Ha, where do you think these kids learn this stuff?

 

[Rookie]

Maybe so, but, at the end of the day, it's the parent's responsibility to discipline their children.

"Johnny won't return his sister's purse. Would you like to handle it, or should we charge him with theft? Oh, you think we are making a big issue out of this? That's Fine, come get your son. He'll need to enroll in another school because he doesn't go here any more."

 

[IndyDave1776]

In addition to the sheer stupidity of the situation, I would like to know why it is that, especially if the officer supposedly acted reasonably, why are the powers that be being so vengeful about accountability. In my experience, most police who get that worked up over accountablility need to be demoted to inmate.

 

[88GT]

I know Indiana is a one party state...as long as YOU know you are recording...you can record till your heart is content. I don't know the details to the laws in other states...I have a hard enough time remembering ours I will take your word on this.

I was referring to the law of the state where Mr. Mueller is facing jail time. The wording isn't an absolute prohibition on recording. Sometimes have this, of course. But whatever state Mueller is in (MD, I can't remember and am too lazy to look again) is not. In fact, the law seems to favor the ability to record when in any place other than a private residence or secluded locale. Defending it in court would be another matter, obviously. But the standard is "reasonable expectation of not being intercepted." Or something like that. Unless that standard is met, recording without foreknowledge is okay.

In the case of public servants, ANY interactions undertaken in the course of their official duty, should not be considered private. But that raises a whole different discussion about the expectations of our elected officials, transparency of government, yadda yadda yadda and so forth. I'm not holding my breath we'll ever get to the point we need to be in that regard.

In short, if the jury finds that the elected officials did not have a reasonable expectation of not being recorded, then they don't have to find him (Mueller) guilty. And that's not even introducing the jury nullification component this case is sure to have.

 

[88GT]

Then I'd appreciate you pointing out what you thought was wrong with the officers actions.

Physical force against the kid. No reason for it. If the school can't lay hands on him, they shouldn't be able to substitute "police" to do it.

Let me turn it back on you: If my kids decide to put up resistance to my discipline, would be it okay if I threw them up against a wall, smacked their head on the table, or stuck my foot on their neck?

 

[Denny347]

I was referring to the law of the state where Mr. Mueller is facing jail time. The wording isn't an absolute prohibition on recording. Sometimes have this, of course. But whatever state Mueller is in (MD, I can't remember and am too lazy to look again) is not. In fact, the law seems to favor the ability to record when in any place other than a private residence or secluded locale. Defending it in court would be another matter, obviously. But the standard is "reasonable expectation of not being intercepted." Or something like that. Unless that standard is met, recording without foreknowledge is okay.

In the case of public servants, ANY interactions undertaken in the course of their official duty, should not be considered private. But that raises a whole different discussion about the expectations of our elected officials, transparency of government, yadda yadda yadda and so forth. I'm not holding my breath we'll ever get to the point we need to be in that regard.

In short, if the jury finds that the elected officials did not have a reasonable expectation of not being recorded, then they don't have to find him (Mueller) guilty. And that's not even introducing the jury nullification component this case is sure to have.

Ahh. like I said, I'll take your word for it...you've researched it more than I. I find it silly that ALL states are not "1 party" states. Seems like common sense to me. Also, what ANYONE does in public is subject to recording..again...common sense. It isn't as common as I would like.

 

[Denny347]

Physical force against the kid. No reason for it. If the school can't lay hands on him, they shouldn't be able to substitute "police" to do it.

Let me turn it back on you: If my kids decide to put up resistance to my discipline, would be it okay if I threw them up against a wall, smacked their head on the table, or stuck my foot on their neck?

What I do not know is if the officer was placing him under arrest or handcuffing him at the time of the maylay. That is a crucial point.

 

[88GT]

What I do not know is if the officer was placing him under arrest or handcuffing him at the time of the maylay. That is a crucial point.

I will concede the relationship of the LEO to the kid (used generically) at the time is relevant. But I still maintain that the level of force used against the populace by LE today is unnecessary and unacceptable. Escalation has become the norm, not something to be used sparingly and in limited circumstances.

While I understand there are times when the confrontation becomes so physical, extra-effort actions are required, it seems that the extra-effort actions are becoming normal responses to something as innocuous as muscle twitches, and not reserved for the truly belligerent asshats.

 

[IndyDave1776]

I will concede the relationship of the LEO to the kid (used generically) at the time is relevant. But I still maintain that the level of force used against the populace by LE today is unnecessary and unacceptable. Escalation has become the norm, not something to be used sparingly and in limited circumstances.

While I understand there are times when the confrontation becomes so physical, extra-effort actions are required, it seems that the extra-effort actions are becoming normal responses to something as innocuous as muscle twitches, and not reserved for the truly belligerent asshats.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Physical force against the kid. No reason for it. If the school can't lay hands on him, they shouldn't be able to substitute "police" to do it.

Let me turn it back on you: If my kids decide to put up resistance to my discipline, would be it okay if I threw them up against a wall, smacked their head on the table, or stuck my foot on their neck?

Uhhhh, you do remember I'm from Alabama right?

 

[level.eleven]

This is just another muscle flexing case. Public servants don't like being recorded by the press so they go to town on charges. The only accountability that is suitable to public servants comes from within their ranks. Protect and serve? Certainly not the constitution if we are jailing reporters for conducting an interview of a public servant who draws a taxpayer funded salary and pension.

 

[Denny347]

IFIFY

This is just another muscle flexing case. SomePublic servants don't like being recorded by the press so they go to town on charges. The only accountability that is suitable to public servants comes from within their ranks. Protect and serve? Certainly not the constitution if we are jailing reporters for conducting an interview of a public servant who draws a taxpayer funded salary and pension.

 

[Benny]

It sounds like nobody wants to get recorded: neither the civilians nor the police. So I guess we all have skeletons in our closet.

During interactions with government officials, I'd like to be recorded every time.

Do I want my phone tapped 24/7? Well no, that's just creepy...But it has nothing to do with skeletons in my closet.

 

[hornadylnl]

The lack of audio outside of the squad car hurt the prosecution in the trial I sat on today. The deputy's credibility was in question on a few issues and audio would probably have helped the prosecution's case. The audio in the car hurt his case.

 

[rgrimm01]

What I do not know is if the officer was placing him under arrest or handcuffing him at the time of the maylay. That is a crucial point.

Maylay= teasing his sister?

It seems this event was blown out of proportion. What ever happened to 3 day suspensions and the ensuing 3 days of misery at home? Thank goodness we do not still write with quills with the required bottles of ink. I shudder to think of the charges brought against any boy who dipped a girls ponytail in the ink and the inevitable civil suit...

I am with 88GT on this. A parent runs the risk of violating any number of laws when disciplining their children yet this is ok when administered by a stranger at the direction of the school?

In the world of family, when school is over, sister goes home and tells mom that brother took her purse and would not give it back. Mom would get this resolved(personally I think that if brother wanted her purse so badly, then a trip to Walmart or the mall where he could carry it around for an hour during the heaviest shopping traffic might dampen his excitement for such behavior).

 

[88GT]

Maylay= teasing his sister?

It seems this event was blown out of proportion. What ever happened to 3 day suspensions and the ensuing 3 days of misery at home? Thank goodness we do not still write with quills with the required bottles of ink. I shudder to think of the charges brought against any boy who dipped a girls ponytail in the ink and the inevitable civil suit...

I am with 88GT on this. A parent runs the risk of violating any number of laws when disciplining their children yet this is ok when administered by a stranger at the direction of the school?

In the world of family, when school is over, sister goes home and tells mom that brother took her purse and would not give it back. Mom would get this resolved(personally I think that if brother wanted her purse so badly, then a trip to Walmart or the mall where he could carry it around for an hour during the heaviest shopping traffic might dampen his excitement for such behavior).

I'm not so sure sister was all that worried about it to begin with. I'm still trying to figure out how we go from a brother trying to push sis's buttons to said brother proned out and forced to kiss the table/floor by a cop that shouldn't even have been there.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Maybe so, but, at the end of the day, it's the parent's responsibility to discipline their children.

"Johnny won't return his sister's purse. Would you like to handle it, or should we charge him with theft? Oh, you think we are making a big issue out of this? That's Fine, come get your son. He'll need to enroll in another school because he doesn't go here any more."

"That's outrageous. Little Johnny is a model student and a good boy. He would NEVER do anything like that. It's all just a big misunderstanding. You're just prejudiced against (take your pick of excuses). You'll be hearing from my LAWYER!!!!"

 

[rgrimm01]

I'm not so sure sister was all that worried about it to begin with. I'm still trying to figure out how we go from a brother trying to push sis's buttons to said brother proned out and forced to kiss the table/floor by a cop that shouldn't even have been there.

I am in total agreement with you. This appears to me to be an instance of the school escalating the situation, playing its right bower to take a 9 of trump when its ten would have been adequate.

They were not going to tolerate any defiant behavior from this teenager. Defiance from a teenager, who could see that coming? It seems to me that it became less about the sisters purse and all about the refusal to comply...

When the brother said that he would give the purse to his sister, not to the school officials, the school officials could have brought the sister to him and he could have handed the purse to her in their presence. The school still could have made him miserable any number of ways.

I wonder how the school is performing on aptitude or scholastic testing? Is this the biggest problem they are facing? A brother aggravating his sister? I will say that if they have security, they very well might have serious violent behavior problems with their students.

Quite a few of us come from smaller/rural schools where the thought of having any kind of law enforcement presence would strike one as peculiar(other than at sporting events). I might not be able to relate to the atmoshere which would precipitate this need. However, this reaction seems to have been uncalled for...