Air Force Fails To Kill Off The A-10 Warthog But Boy Did They Try

[singlesix]

And a favorite of the ground pounders

The buzz/burp sound warms the heart doesn't it.

 

[D-Ric902]

The buzz/burp sound warms the heart doesn't it.

When you hear that whine from the engines

you know help is on the way

 

[T.Lex]

The A-10 is pretty cheap, aircraft wise.

Well (and keep in mind, I am on your side overall) here's the problem with saying that:
1) They aren't making any more, so it gets more expensive to mechanically maintain each year.
B) Still not as cheap as drones.
III) Pilot training is WAY more expensive and dangerous that drone operator training.

Those points are truly Devil's Advocate positions. IMHO, the proper counterpoint is that if one of the other branches want them, let them budget for it and allow them to restart production. Or, even better, come up with a D variant that is updated for contemporary manufacturing and electronics. Keep the original design specs and role, but just make new (better) ones.

 

[Thor]

When you hear that whine from the engines

you know help is already here.

FIFY.

The first thing you hear is the whoosh bang of the mavericks, the second BrrrrWHAP of the gun, the last the whine of the engines as they pass over.

The only people who don't like the Warthog are people who won't end up on the battlefield. Nobody on the ground in a danger close situation wants their air support either rolling in at the speed of stink or dropping 'smart' weapons from the stratosphere.

 

[Thor]

Well (and keep in mind, I am on your side overall) here's the problem with saying that:
1) They aren't making any more, so it gets more expensive to mechanically maintain each year.
B) Still not as cheap as drones.
III) Pilot training is WAY more expensive and dangerous that drone operator training.

Those points are truly Devil's Advocate positions. IMHO, the proper counterpoint is that if one of the other branches want them, let them budget for it and allow them to restart production. Or, even better, come up with a D variant that is updated for contemporary manufacturing and electronics. Keep the original design specs and role, but just make new (better) ones.

All right Mr. Advocate...and yet is still makes economic, tactical, and strategic sense to fly and upgrade the B-52...the F-15's life is now projected out to 2040...they are tough aircraft with a whole bunch sitting in the boneyard easily brought back into service...their arguments are invalid.

Also, drones will not survive in a contested environment unless we release them on their own recognizance. That will likely not end well.

 

[Alpo]

This is Capt. Kim Campbell's (yes, female pilot) A-10 RTB after engagement in the second Gulf War. The foto really doesn't show all the damage this plane took and still maintained maneuverability. Try that with an F-35.

 

[actaeon277]

the other down point about drones, what happens when you encounter an enemy with a rudimentary ability to jam and counter jam?
Drones don't do any good if they keep falling out of the sky.

 

[KellyinAvon]

At best this is a goat-rope, probably a CHARLIE-FOXTROT. The only platform designed specifically for close air support (CAS). It works in that role, PERIOD. The gound-pounders love it because it works.


It is slow, it is ugly, the fast-movers you are in charge of much of the USAF don't like it or CAS.

Hard choices have to be made at places like HQ Air Combat Command with organize, train and equip responsibility. I can tell you from my time there you don't have much leeway with resources, most ar spoken for already.

If you could sling an A-10 off a carrier it would be perfect for the USMC. F-35? I'm not warm or fuzzy. I'm trying to remember the term used by flyer/HQ types. I dealt with capability and the outcome, not how it got there. If there is a smoking hole where the baddies were? Cool!

I heard using a B-52 with JDAMs as a CAS platform described as "six guys looking through a soda straw from the bozosphere" by a Hawg-driver. I thought it was funny, but he was serious. People who call CAS and fly CAS are quite serious about their professions I have noticed.

 

[T.Lex]

All right Mr. Advocate...and yet is still makes economic, tactical, and strategic sense to fly and upgrade the B-52...the F-15's life is now projected out to 2040...

Those are all within the USAF's traditional comfort zones - carpet bombing and air superiority.

(By the way, I'd put money on the Buff reaching 100 years of service.)

they are tough aircraft with a whole bunch sitting in the boneyard easily brought back into service...

Even though I'm a true-blue (or gray) A-10 supporter, I would argue that "easily" is a relative term. It is not as easy as making new Predators.

their arguments are invalid.

They are valid, if they win. Right now, the cycle suggests that there is a good chance that they will win.

Also, drones will not survive in a contested environment unless we release them on their own recognizance.

Again, I'm not convinced of that. They appear to be effective - in certain roles - when controlled from Home Base.

 

[T.Lex]

People who call CAS and fly CAS are quite serious about their professions I have noticed.

I think this is the key - both of those groups should be in the same branch. Give the A-10s to the USMC and/or Army Aviation.

 

[D-Ric902]

Because a PFC in a trailer out west can of course do the job of a highly trained pilot

(way purple)

 

[T.Lex]

Because a PFC in a trailer out west can of course do the job of a highly trained pilot

Congressman, is that you?

 

[D-Ric902]

Congressman, is that you?

purple
way purple

 

[halfmileharry]

The AF has always believed they can win any conflict with air power alone. Boots on the ground mop up the mess and the hog covers the grunt's six very well.

 

[Drail]

They should just give the entire A 10 program to the U.S Army and U. S. Marines Corps (bless their hearts) since the Air Farce has their head stuck so far up their a$$ (oh no, we can't buy it unless it costs 4 billion dollars per aircraft). (and I am allowed to call them the "Air Farce" cuz I wore the uniform) Ask ANY guy on the ground taking fire what they think about the A 10. Ask any Islamic fighter what they think of it. It just flat out WORKS better than anything else!

 

[halfmileharry]

I didn't have the luxury of the A-10.
(old man here) My day was the A-1 Sky Raider. They could tear some shi. up too. Nice ground cover plane that could stay on station a long time and carried a lot of firepower.

 

[HoughMade]

The AF has always believed they can win any conflict with air power alone. Boots on the ground mop up the mess and the hog covers the grunt's six very well.

Except the only time they arguably ever did, it took nukes.

Nope, air power doesn't win wars, but it can be a great help in assisting land forces in winning wars.

 

[Drail]

OOOOH! Skyraiders ARE THE BOMB! Fly slow, carry lots of ordnance and LOTS of fuel. Now yer talkin'. If only the Skyraider was as heavily armored as an A 10. I have seen A 10s RTB with damage so severe you could not believe they kept it in the air. Talk about bulletproof.

 

[T.Lex]

I heard a story once that the design criteria for the A-10 RFP were basically to make a new Skyraider plus 2 jet engines. (Ended up not quite being jets, but close.)

 

[D-Ric902]

I heard a story once that the design criteria for the A-10 RFP Thinderbolt II were basically to make a new P-47 Thunderbolt plus 2 jet engines. (Ended up not quite being jets, but close.)

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