Another question

[Amattern]

Let me say once again I have read and understand the laws this is a from my thread considering doing a ar15 build.

Now as far as the Straw Arm Sale thing... I was in the same situation when I was under 21 and wanted some handguns. The way I did it was this:
I paid my mom $XYZ to do my laundry (or fix me dinner, or take me to school, or some other small task that I would normally never pay her for) and then independently, she would decide to buy a gun that I just happen to want and gift it to me.

Now this is completely legal because parents can buy guns for their children and you can own handguns before you turn 21, or rifles before you turn 18 if they were gifted to you. If the gun store asked about who was paying we would always tell them it was all coming out of my mom's pocket and then I would just pay her the equal amount for something else. This kept the gun stores from having to worry, and made everyone happy

(except mom, who wished I would really pay her to do my laundry and make me dinner )


Forgot who posted it but there you have it. Come outta my dads pocket not mine I give him the money like the person who posted that. Look above your post slyvain has the right idea NOTHING ILLEGAL IS HAPPENING!!! The weapon is considered a gift. Also how did you own guns when you where a minor if they were not gifts? I have never done anything illegal and never will. I do work for my dad that he think equals a amount of $ then he buys a rifle and hands it down when I'm 18 or 21 for handguns. I know the law. Also if you go to my previouse thread tell the person who posted the above that he commited mulitible felonys. I will say this once more. I will never ever do anything illegal

You have already admitted the money for the weapon is coming from you and he is using it to go out and buy it for you it is all written down and save on this forum. Im not saying that it you cannot have your dad buy it for you I'm just saying you are wrong in saying what is being done is 100% legal. go into any reputable gun shop and tell them what you are doing and how its being done and i bet they will not sell your father the gun.
yes your father going in and buying the gun and giving it to you is completely legal it is just the part that the money is yours an he is using it to buy the gun for you and you have posted on here for the world to see that id be cautious of. If i were you i would not be putting this info out on a public forum for anyone to see it could come back on you in the future. I have bought some guns privately after i turned 18 and my Glock 22 was an actual gift from my father and I didn't put a dime towards it. Like i said the transfer is not what your problem is its the statement that you have accompanied it with the said transfers/transfer.

You can think whatever you want to believe just trying to keep the fact straight. If you want clarification send a letter to the ATF if what you are doing is legal I'm sure they would be happy to answer it for you.

 

[Mosinowner]

You have already admitted the money for the weapon is coming from you and he is using it to go out and buy it for you it is all written down and save on this forum. Im not saying that it you cannot have your dad buy it for you I'm just saying you are wrong in saying what is being done is 100% legal. go into any reputable gun shop and tell them what you are doing and how its being done and i bet they will not sell your father the gun.
yes your father going in and buying the gun and giving it to you is completely legal it is just the part that the money is yours an he is using it to buy the gun for you and you have posted on here for the world to see that id be cautious of. If i were you i would not be putting this info out on a public forum for anyone to see it could come back on you in the future. I have bought some guns privately after i turned 18 and my Glock 22 was an actual gift from my father and I didn't put a dime towards it. Like i said the transfer is not what your problem is its the statement that you have accompanied it with the said transfers/transfer.

O.K. that cleared that up. The money never enters my bank account and never leaves his pocket so it is always his money he just says I have X amount of money to go. The person who posted about him buying handguns with his mom exact same thing i'm doing (Well my dads not a mom) But thank you for your concern here is the definition of straw purchase.

In the context of United States federal gun laws, a straw purchase is defined as any purchase from a dealer holding a Federal Firearms License where the buyer conducting the transaction is acting as a proxy for another person. The law does not distinguish between someone who is purchasing on behalf of a person who legally cannot purchase or possess a firearm, and one who is not.
Beginning in 1975, ATF officials apparently reached a judgment that a dealer who sells to a legitimate purchaser may nonetheless be subject to prosecution or license revocation if he knows that that individual intends to transfer the firearm to a nonresident or other unqualified purchaser. This position was never published in the Federal Register and is indeed contrary to indications which Bureau officials had given Congress, that such sales were not in violation of existing law. Rather than informing dealers of this distinction, ATF agents set out to produce mass arrests upon these "straw purchase" sale charges, sending out undercover agents to entice dealers into transfers of this type.[citation needed]
In the United States, straw purchases are a felony violation of the Gun Control Act of 1968 for both the straw purchaser (who can also be charged with lying on Federal Form 4473) and the ultimate possessor. One of the questions on Form 4473 is “I am the buyer of this firearm” and the purchaser must answer honestly yes or no, by checking the appropriate box in ink. However, purchase of a firearm as a bona fide gift for someone who can legally own such a firearm is permitted.[1]
Many gun shops have jointly participated in programs (such as: “Don’t Lie For The Other Guy”) to deter such purchases.[2

There you have it money never enter my pocket I just consider it mine he never puts it into my account.I do $xyz hours of work.

 

[Mosinowner]

He buys it. Like you know how your dad teaches you how to shoot then buys you a 22lr rifle? Then when I turn 18 he decides to pass it down. Nothing illegal going on. He buys it. He ownes it till im 18. In other words its my gun BUT he ownes it. I would never do anything illegal and never have. Understand now?

Read this

 

[Jack Burton]

Basically it appears that what you are saying is that he is gifting you the gun in return for xx number of hours of work for him. Sort of like you mow the lawn for the neighbor and instead of her paying you 20 dollars she gives you a couple of music CDs that you've been wanting.

Right?

 

[Sylvain]

O.K. that cleared that up. The money never enters my bank account and never leaves his pocket so it is always his money he just says I have X amount of money to go. The person who posted about him buying handguns with his mom exact same thing i'm doing (Well my dads not a mom) But thank you for your concern here is the definition of straw purchase.

In the context of United States federal gun laws, a straw purchase is defined as any purchase from a dealer holding a Federal Firearms License where the buyer conducting the transaction is acting as a proxy for another person. The law does not distinguish between someone who is purchasing on behalf of a person who legally cannot purchase or possess a firearm, and one who is not.
Beginning in 1975, ATF officials apparently reached a judgment that a dealer who sells to a legitimate purchaser may nonetheless be subject to prosecution or license revocation if he knows that that individual intends to transfer the firearm to a nonresident or other unqualified purchaser. This position was never published in the Federal Register and is indeed contrary to indications which Bureau officials had given Congress, that such sales were not in violation of existing law. Rather than informing dealers of this distinction, ATF agents set out to produce mass arrests upon these "straw purchase" sale charges, sending out undercover agents to entice dealers into transfers of this type.[citation needed]
In the United States, straw purchases are a felony violation of the Gun Control Act of 1968 for both the straw purchaser (who can also be charged with lying on Federal Form 4473) and the ultimate possessor. One of the questions on Form 4473 is “I am the buyer of this firearm” and the purchaser must answer honestly yes or no, by checking the appropriate box in ink. However, purchase of a firearm as a bona fide gift for someone who can legally own such a firearm is permitted.[1]
Many gun shops have jointly participated in programs (such as: “Don’t Lie For The Other Guy”) to deter such purchases.[2

There you have it money never enter my pocket I just consider it mine he never puts it into my account.I do $xyz hours of work

The gift thing only works if the person who gets the gun as a gift can legally own it.You obviously cannot if you are 13 years old.
It's not about the money, even if it's not your money and your dad is using is own money he's still buying a gun for someone other than himself.

You stated many times that your dad is buying the guns FOR you.

 

[Mosinowner]

The gift thing only works if the person who gets the gun as a gift can legally own it.You obviously cannot if you are 13 years old.
It's not about the money, even if it's not your money and your dad is using is own money he's still buying a gun for someone other than himself.

You stated many times that your dad is buying the guns FOR you.

FOR me. When i'm 18 I get it. But till then its my gun that he owns. He is buying me a early birthday gift for my 18th birthday you could say that.

 

[Mosinowner]

Basically it appears that what you are saying is that he is gifting you the gun in return for xx number of hours of work for him. Sort of like you mow the lawn for the neighbor and instead of her paying you 20 dollars she gives you a couple of music CDs that you've been wanting.

Right?

Yep

 

[Amattern]

Like i said send a letter to the ATF and see what they say.

 

[Mosinowner]

Like i said send a letter to the ATF and see what they say.

Wouldn't email be faster?

 

[Mosinowner]

This thread has gotton a little off topic

 

[Sylvain]

FOR me. When i'm 18 I get it. But till then its my gun that he owns. Thanks you for posting the info I find it a intresting topic to read about.

Since you are not 18 yet, right now he's buying a gun for someone who cannot legally buy one.That's a straw purchase.

You clearly say that it's YOUR guns and that he buys them FOR you.
Even the fact that he "owns" them until you turn 18 doesn't make it legal.

It should be HIS gun that HE owns and that he bought for HIMSELF.That would be legal.That doesn't look to be the case here from what you stated a few times.

And because other people may do that as well doesn't make it more legal.

 

[Mosinowner]

Since you are not 18 yet, right now he's buying a gun for someone who cannot legally buy one.That's a straw purchase.

You clearly say that it's YOUR guns and that he buys them FOR you.
Even the fact that he "owns" them until you turn 18 doesn't make it legal.

It should be HIS gun that HE owns and that he bought for HIMSELF.That would be legal.That doesn't look to be the case here from what you stated a few times.

And because other people may do that as well doesn't make it more legal.

He buys a gun that HE owns that he will just happen to pass down to ME on my 18th birthday. Thats legal since last time I checked you can pass down guns.

 

[Sylvain]

He buys a gun that HE owns that he will pass down to ME on my 18th birthday. Thats legal since last time I checked you can pass down guns.

Sure it's legal to pass down guns to a 18 years old person who can legally own them.
My point was about not so legal parts, you said a few times that those guns were yours and that he bought them for you.
I guess that's a grey area even though some could agree that it is indeed a straw purchase from what you told us.

I said that a straw purchase was not legal, not that passing down guns when you are old enough was not legal.

Some things are better left untold, especially on the internet on a public forum where things stay for ever.

 

[Mosinowner]

Sure it's legal to pass down guns to a 18 years old person who can legally own them.
My point was about not so legal parts, you said a few times that those guns were yours and that he bought them for you.
I guess that's a grey area even though some could agree that it is indeed a straw purchase from what you told us.

I said that a straw purchase was not legal, not that passing down guns when you are old enough was not legal.

Some things are better left untold, especially on the internet on a public forum where things stay for ever.

Thanks for the postitive reps all around when the rep system allows me to. You have given me good info and good reading material. Also my question is what about the shotgun he buys does he just let us use them for hunting? We went to cabealas to buy them and he said he wanted a dove gun for me. So why did the shop let him complete the purchase?

 

[EvilKidsMeal]

Thanks for the postitive reps all around when the rep system allows me to. You have given me good info and good reading material. Also my question is what about the shotgun he buys does he just let us use them for hunting? We went to cabealas to buy them and he said he wanted a dove gun for me. So why did the shop let him complete the purchase?

that's a little different though since you can not hunt without him there, as you are not 18, therefore with him being there and you hunting with HIM it would be presumed he is letting you use HIS gun for said hunting trip.

 

[Mosinowner]

that's a little different though since you can not hunt without him there, as you are not 18, therefore with him being there and you hunting with HIM it would be presumed he is letting you use HIS gun for said hunting trip.

Ok thanks.
but I cannot also use a rifle without him there. So what is the difference?

 

[EvilKidsMeal]

Ok thanks. I but I cannot also use a rifle without him there. So what is the difference.

the difference is: you asked why they sold him the gun even though he said he wanted a dove gun for YOU. my post explains why they probably did not think twice about it. the other guns they probably did not know were supposedly for your use.

 

[Mosinowner]

the difference is: you asked why they sold him the gun even though he said he wanted a dove gun for YOU. my post explains why they probably did not think twice about it. the other guns they probably did not know were supposedly for your use.

Ok. Thank you postive rep inbound,