Another SHTF rifle thread...

[jason867]

... but this one is more specific

So I'm wanting to get me something to help me survive the impending SHTF or TEOTWAWKI event that everyone thinks is coming sooner or later.

I've already been doing a lot of research and I've narrowed it down to 3 obvious possibilities:

An AR in 308/7.62
An AR in 5.56
An AK-47 (not 74)

My own reasoning tells me that I'd prefer an AR in 308/7.62 because:
The 308 appears more effective than the 5.56 in combat.
Can be more readily used for hunting game.
Can be easily found locally. And I assume I can buy surplus ammo as well.
I'm not Rambo, so I need not be as concerned about the weight of the 308 ammo compared to the 5.56 ammo.

While the AK-47 and it's 7.62 round would work about as well as the 308, and it's ammo is just as readily available and cheaper to boot, I reckon that the 7.62x39 is not as widely available and dispersed throughout the country as 308 is. It would more likely to be found in warehouses that could be either already ransacked, or highly guarded.

While I plan on stockpiling a lot of ammo for whatever rifle I end up buying, I'd prefer to be able to relatively easily scrounge ammo for it too. I see the AK47 fodder being harder to find than 308.

What do you guys think?

How cheaply can I get a decent ar in 308/7.62?

Right now, cost is the only thing making me want an AK47 more.

P.s. I would buy both, but I just ain't got much money to work with right now, so I'd prefer to invest in the better option first.

 

[gunowner930]

... but this one is more specific

So I'm wanting to get me something to help me survive the impending SHTF or TEOTWAWKI event that everyone thinks is coming sooner or later.

Honest question. What is TEOTWASKI?

I've already been doing a lot of research and I've narrowed it down to 3 obvious possibilities:

An AR in 308/7.62
An AR in 5.56
An AK-47 (not 74)

My own reasoning tells me that I'd prefer an AR in 308/7.62 because:
The 308 appears more effective than the 5.56 in combat.
Can be more readily used for hunting game.
Can be easily found locally. And I assume I can buy surplus ammo as well.
I'm not Rambo, so I need not be as concerned about the weight of the 308 ammo compared to the 5.56 ammo.

If you're going to be mobile you'll be concerned about the weight. yes the .308 is more powerful, but thousands of men have been sent to whomever they pray to by the 5.56x45 and 7.62x39.

While the AK-47 and it's 7.62 round would work about as well as the 308, and it's ammo is just as readily available and cheaper to boot, I reckon that the 7.62x39 is not as widely available and dispersed throughout the country as 308 is. It would more likely to be found in warehouses that could be either already ransacked, or highly guarded.

the 7.62x39 in the AK is nowhere near as powerful as the 7.62x51 or .308. You can find 7.62x39 all over the place.

While I plan on stockpiling a lot of ammo for whatever rifle I end up buying, I'd prefer to be able to relatively easily scrounge ammo for it too. I see the AK47 fodder being harder to find than 308.

Ammo costs are much lower with 7.62x39 or 5.56x45 compared to 7.62x51

What do you guys think?

How cheaply can I get a decent ar in 308/7.62?

I've seen DPMS rifles for roughly $1000, if you trust DPMS. You'd be able to find used rifles cheaper, there might even be some cheaper new ones.

Right now, cost is the only thing making me want an AK47 more.

Nothing wrong with an AK

P.s. I would buy both, but I just ain't got much money to work with right now, so I'd prefer to invest in the better option first.

Responses in red. There is no "best SHTF rifle." Do you envision short-range engagements? Engagements beyond 300-400 meters? Are you staying home? Are you mobile?

If your budget is limited, I'd get the AK. Prices for 7.62x39 and 5.56x45 are comparable, 7.62x51 is generally more expensive. A 5.45x39 chambered AK wouldn't be a bad option either. 5.45x39 isn's a bad cartridge, and its cheap. I've seen deals on 5.45x39, 1000 rounds for $100. Good luck on your purchase.

 

[revsaxon]

TEOTWASKI == The End Of The World As Society Knows It, or something like that I would venture.

Go with an AK if your dead-set on the AR/AK only. They will run forever with little to no maintenance or cleaning, ammo is dirt cheap and plentiful.

As I always say in these situations though, planning on long range style survival is overkill. Get something small and useful for up close (I usually suggest 9mm UZI). By the time you would need to do anything at a distance there will be piles of never-fired ARs and AKs laying around....

 

[gunowner930]

TEOTWASKI == The End Of The World As Society Knows It, or something like that I would venture.quote]

Thanks. As that a new acronym? Or am I just behind the game?

 

[revsaxon]

TEOTWASKI == The End Of The World As Society Knows It, or something like that I would venture.quote]

Thanks. As that a new acronym? Or am I just behind the game?

To be fair I had no heard it before, but that means nothing I think im going to start using it though.

 

[jason867]

Well you guys spelled it wrong when quoting my post.

Its "the end of the world as we know it" TEOTWAWKI

Is 7.62x39 ammo something I can find pretty easily at retailers that normally stock a decent amount of ammo, and therefor I could expect it to be found elsewhere (scrounging, trade, bartering, looting, etc..) Honestly I haven't looked for it when I'm looking at ammo, but I just assumed it would be harder to find than 308 and 223

I would be planning on staying home, where I plan on having a lot of prep work in place. Although I plan on being able to go mobile and relocate if necessary.

As far as engagements go, I wouldn't start anything on purpose, but I would defend my property/location with force if I do not feel disadvantaged. Obviously I'm not going to fight a losing battle, I would retreat and only fight if I'm cornered.

 

[M67]

Its "the end of the world as we know it"

And I feel fine

Anyway, AR in a 308.

Loaded right, a 308 can pretty much take down anything in North America, and it can punch through walls easier that a 223.

A 308 is very versitile and pretty powerful, so, it's the winner in my book. The one down side, they weigh a ton

 

[LPMan59]

I say go with the AR in 5.56.

 

[patience0830]

As far as engagements go, I wouldn't start anything on purpose, but I would defend my property/location with force if I do not feel disadvantaged. Obviously I'm not going to fight a losing battle, I would retreat and only fight if I'm cornered.

TEOTWAWKI changes over time. You may feel the need at some point to form up a squad with the neighbors and attack b4 you are attacked. I'm gonna recommend that you start with the .308. Works devastatingly at close range and has the punch and accuracy potential to reach out and touch to about 600 yds with authority. Having only one weapon, it strikes me that flexibility is important. Add ammo first and when you're comfortable with your stockpile, think about adding something lighter like an AK or AR15 that you won't mind as much hanging around your neck while attending to the day to day. A DPMS LR .308 Oracle is heavy. 8.3# empty w/o optic. FN/FAL and M1A are a load also. A carbine length or sbr AR is substantially lighter. They all get heavy when you have to carry them everywhere you go.
But like Clint Smith says, "A gun is meant to be comforting, not necessarily comfortable."

 

[valposhooter]

a redneck vegan from chesterton is right about cleaning

I have heard that you can clean an ak47 with a shoe string dipped in motor oil. The sloppy tolerances of an ak47 make it more reliable when TEOTWASKI.

TEOTWASKI == The End Of The World As Society Knows It, or something like that I would venture.

Go with an AK if your dead-set on the AR/AK only. They will run forever with little to no maintenance or cleaning, ammo is dirt cheap and plentiful.

As I always say in these situations though, planning on long range style survival is overkill. Get something small and useful for up close (I usually suggest 9mm UZI). By the time you would need to do anything at a distance there will be piles of never-fired ARs and AKs laying around....

 

[U.S. Patriot]

There is only 1 local shop that does not sale 7.62x39. I have been buying it for $5 a box of 20. Rural King and Walmart also sales it. I would 100% trust an AK out to 200 yards. Are you really going to take many shots out too, and beyond that distance? Unless you know that an individual is a threat, are you going to want to take a shot at that distance? Would you even want to take a shot at that distance, on an animal meant for food? Fact is, unless you reload, or have gobs of money. The 7.62x39 is the cheapest between the three. My .02

 

[03A3]

Whatever gun you get, buy parts for it (more prep). Things break or wear out, even the with venerable AK.
Firing pins, extractors, extractor springs ect. The list goes on. Parts availability should be considered before you buy a gun.
IE : Not many people consider the Mini 14 a SHTF gun. I don't either. You can't get simple parts for them such as a firing pin without sending at least the bolt to Ruger, then they won't return the original firing pin. Therefore you will never have a spare.

 

[jason867]

I do reload, I'm not sure I could do it cheaper than just buying surplus ammo, but it would definitely be an option for me.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

If your gonna stay home , then .308 . If your gonna be moving , AK .

 

[neraph]

I do reload, I'm not sure I could do it cheaper than just buying surplus ammo, but it would definitely be an option for me.

If you're talking about 308, there's a good chance you could reload for less than the price of cheap ammo. For 5.56 or 7.62x39, not so much.

Something else to consider when selecting a rifle is what sidearm would you be carrying? A full size 9mm is tempting, but a revolver may need less maintenance. A suppressed .22 probably does most of what your rifle would be inappropriate for (hunting squirrel for example) and it's easy to carry lots of .22. Carrying a sidearm at all though means carrying weight that could be rifle ammo.

 

[jbombelli]

My shooting in any situation won't be much past 200-250 yards, so I'll take my AK. It's reliable, accurate and hard-hitting enough to get the job done, and ammo is cheap enough.

In a true SHTF/TEOTWAWKI, all ammo will be hard to find. Everybody under the sun will be hitting every gun store and warehouse they can, and ammo will quickly become scarce by day #2, especially if it's bad enough that factories and imports are shut down. So no matter what you decide upon, stock up on ammo in advance.

 

[AmericanBob]

anything in 7.62x39. tons of ammo out there, tons of guns out there. which would mean a pretty good chance of battlefield pick-ups. one question, why was the sks not included? just as reliable, just as accurate if not more, and most are useable as spears if need be.

 

[jason867]

one question, why was the sks not included? just as reliable, just as accurate if not more, and most are useable as spears if need be.

No particular reason, just seems like the AK would be a better option, not to mention that I already want an AK for cool factor alone. The SKS doesn't tickle my fancy in the same way.

 

[Bunnykid68]

12G coach gun and lots of dimes

 

[dudley0]

My AR was real finicky when I got it... wouldn't shoot more than a single round at a time. I worked on it and swapped parts and such until I figured it out. I am not an AR smith for sure. I feel pretty good about stripping one and cleaning it now.

When I got my AK I loaded it and pulled the trigger many times. The AR has more accuracy potential, but the AK is more user friendly, at least at first. I need more spare parts for all my weapons, but the AK seems the most reliable, feed wise.

I also have a couple SKS rifles. I put a new stock on one for length and added it to a cache at another house. The thing is sweet to shoot. I think it has more accuracy potential than an AK. I bought another new stock for the second one that I have at home. Adds length and makes it a bit more comfortable to shoot. I haven't put larger mags in either and probably wont. Have stripper clips all around them. Considering optics for one as a longer range rifle with the same rounds as my AK.

An SKS can be found for cheap. Well, they can also be found for big bucks but I am not sure why. You could pick one up, get a new stock for it if needed and then have extra money available instantly for ammo and practice.

Remember that none of your weapons will be as good as you need them to if you aren't comfortable with them and know how they work.

With that being said... I wouldn't write off a nice shotty either. They don't have the range but for CQC, especially untrained, they could be easier to use.

Get what you can afford to buy and shoot, then save up for the cool factor. Hey I blacked out my AK just because.

You gotta have a little fun too, or you lose interest.