Appleseed KD - Data book Group buy

[SmileDocHill]

Just food for thought here but I used to use Thompson's water seal spray to coat my paper maps for hiking, canoeing, mt. biking, or other multi day trips where we had some version of orienteering to do. It changes the translucency of the base paper a bit but doesn't alter the graphics or writing.
This is an idea for a journal that has already been filled out, i don't know how it would work to write on it after water sealing it.

 

[gregkl]

Is this something that is needed for doing some Appleseed's throughout the year? And if so, do you have a ballpark price? I may be interested.

 

[RobbyMaQ]

I checked out this doc and found that its intended to be printed at 8 1/2 x 11.

Walking around with the full size hand out pages wasnt exactly easy with all the movement between berms. The hand outs ended up folded in half to make them easier to get in and out of my pack. I am actually hoping to get this databook down to 5x8 which is the size of a small planner.

I made those specifically to be folded in half twice (quads) to easily fit in a pocket. Then just flip it, or fold it backwards to use whichever quad you're working on.
If printed double sided, then you get two rounds for each stage.

The pdf is editable (A graphic artist or printer can pull specific parts/targets and/or resize as necessary). I stole the idea from YHJ at an event where he had gridded targets printed for us KD Noobs. Free to use however anyone see's fit.

 

[grunt soldier]

Is this something that is needed for doing some Appleseed's throughout the year? And if so, do you have a ballpark price? I may be interested.

Definitely not needed but they sure do help out with all the info. especially when you go from 300-400-500. say you adjust your sights from 300-400 but something happens and it's way off. well if you wrote the info down in your data book you just simply dial it back to your 300 yard set up. If you didn't write it down you will more than likely forget what you dialed how much which direction ect.

Plus a month down the road and your shooting at known distance. Your zeroed for 200 a coyote runs out at 400 and stops. if you got your data book there next to you. you quickly dial your dope and send the round. it's definitely handy to say the least. record weather, wind ect and then when your in the field in similar conditions you already know how your rifle and ammo will react.

 

[sloughfoot]

Is this something that is needed for doing some Appleseed's throughout the year? And if so, do you have a ballpark price? I may be interested.

For regular Appleseeds, all that is needed is a 4moa rifle with ball ammo. Apparently there are some people who have moved way beyond that equipment-wise.

I shoot precision highpower with specialized rifles with data for each firing range that I compete at. When I am at an Appleseed, I adhere to the principles of the founder and don't worry about such things.

It sounds like there are guys that need to start shooting highpower. Come on over. You will be welcomed. We will,show you how we have done it for almost 100 years. Waterproof data books are not needed.

 

[gregkl]

Yeah, I am probably putting the cart before the horse. My goal this year is to earn a Rifleman patch with my 10/22 and my AR. I would like to shoot one(some) of the longer distance Appleseed's and not just the 25 yard ones. I also think it would be fun to shoot an AQT or two with my Garand.

I have been doing a lot of thinking over this Winter with living in an apartment and having all my guns in another state with my brother in safe keeping. Given that I just bought a fixer-upper home and virtually all of my money will be going into that, I have decided that for 2015 I will focus on becoming a better marksman. The run and gun stuff will have to wait.

So, I am thinking Appleseed is probably my best venue to do this and still be able to shoot a lot of rounds in the course of a day.

 

[sloughfoot]

You are correct, bring the 10-22 and a teachable attitude. It is a great, no frills program. I shot one with the mighty M1 once. You are correct there too. It was a BALL. Especially when the other shooters flinched when I touched one off.....

 

[dusty88]

It sounds like there are guys that need to start shooting highpower. Come on over. You will be welcomed. We will,show you how we have done it for almost 100 years. Waterproof data books are not needed.

I have a lot of basics to learn, so I don't "need" the data books. However, in other sports I have been in I've always benefited from glancing back at log books later to remind myself of things I learned and things I changed. It also adds to the memories now and then.

 

[ol' Huff]

For regular Appleseeds, all that is needed is a 4moa rifle with ball ammo. Apparently there are some people who have moved way beyond that equipment-wise.

Im im not sure where you got this idea but it is NOT the case in Indiana. Appleseed in Indiana is ABSOLUTELY not gear based. Their instructors adhere to the rack grade rifle and surplus ammo theme very closely. It holds very much to a field shooting curriculum.


its not uncommon at the Atterbury events to have shooters attend who do not have a lot of experience with their rifles at distance. The curriculum still stresses the value of BSZ and simple systems.
HOWEVER it has been common that shooters attend with sight systems or rifle set ups more complicated than necessary. You and I both know that showing up with a Garand or a run of th mill AR with A2s is excellent for field applications and VERY easy to use. Unfortunately we see all sorts of setups. This data book is NOT designed as a hipower book. It's scaled more to record group size and shape and provide a quick reference for sight settings. In this it's been valuable to several attendees.

Personally, when I have taken an AR or Garand I haven't used a book. When I take my M77 though, it's a different animal and I'm trying to fit every round (even my sighters) into the V. On those occasions I find a book a valuable reference.

 

[sloughfoot]

I have a lot of basics to learn, so I don't "need" the data books. However, in other sports I have been in I've always benefited from glancing back at log books later to remind myself of things I learned and things I changed. It also adds to the memories now and then.

Data books are needed. Especially for a beginner or someone who does not shoot the same rifle all the time. Every rifle deserves a data book of some kind. Even if it is just a little notebook.

Just not the waterproof kind IMO. I just don't see the need to spend the money on waterproof. That is all.

Again, I record come-ups on the underside of my hat. It is all I need and plenty close enough for several rifles. I also mark my elevation knobs in various ways. I have data for every range that I shoot at also.

Here is what the USAMU thinks about Data Books....http://www.odcmp.org/0706/default.asp?page=USAMU_DATABOOKS

 

[sloughfoot]

Im im not sure where you got this idea but it is NOT the case in Indiana. Appleseed in Indiana is ABSOLUTELY not gear based. Their instructors adhere to the rack grade rifle and surplus ammo theme very closely. It holds very much to a field shooting curriculum.


its not uncommon at the Atterbury events to have shooters attend who do not have a lot of experience with their rifles at distance. The curriculum still stresses the value of BSZ and simple systems.
HOWEVER it has been common that shooters attend with sight systems or rifle set ups more complicated than necessary. You and I both know that showing up with a Garand or a run of th mill AR with A2s is excellent for field applications and VERY easy to use. Unfortunately we see all sorts of setups. This data book is NOT designed as a hipower book. It's scaled more to record group size and shape and provide a quick reference for sight settings. In this it's been valuable to several attendees.

Personally, when I have taken an AR or Garand I haven't used a book. When I take my M77 though, it's a different animal and I'm trying to fit every round (even my sighters) into the V. On those occasions I find a book a valuable reference.[/QUOte

Roger that.

However, I took from some of the posts on this forum, that some have desired more precision than Appleseed requires. My post is aimed at those individuals. You sir, admit to being drawn to the dark side with your M77.....

 

[308jake]

In for 2-4

 

[Cable]

Ok, here are the numbers so far.

Cable - 3
Que - 1
Grunt Soldier - 1
Indy Chad - 2
TJ - 1
Dusty88 - 1?
RoseJM - 1
Hop - 2
nad63 - 1
308jake - 2-4

 

[gregkl]

^^^Did anyone provide a ballpark price on one?

 

[ol' Huff]

The Dark Side is seductive. I'll admit it. The thing is, though, I'm well secure in my path along the Light Side to dabble a bit. I've shot several Rifleman scores with A2s, M1, M1A and would be happy to give it a go with an original pattern 03 with the Vernier-style but mine won't hold tight enough. My success thus far is based on good fundamental coaching, a little practice, and focus on the front sight.

What at we need to stress, what we cannot stress enough, is that first time Atterbury attendees need to keep it simple. They need to show up with an A2 pattern AR and a case of Wolf Polyformance. Too many are showing up with rifle built by midwayusa covered in things they dont need and supersniperator (bro, do you even operate?) sights.

Always the reason is "I've got old eyes". Im so sick of hearing that.

 

[gregkl]

The Dark Side is seductive. I'll admit it. The thing is, though, I'm well secure in my path along the Light Side to dabble a bit. I've shot several Rifleman scores with A2s, M1, M1A and would be happy to give it a go with an original pattern 03 with the Vernier-style but mine won't hold tight enough. My success thus far is based on good fundamental coaching, a little practice, and focus on the front sight.

What at we need to stress, what we cannot stress enough, is that first time Atterbury attendees need to keep it simple. They need to show up with an A2 pattern AR and a case of Wolf Polyformance. Too many are showing up with rifle built by midwayusa covered in things they dont need and supersniperator (bro, do you even operate?) sights.

Always the reason is "I've got old eyes". Im so sick of hearing that.

Are you saying that Atterbury won't allow a magnified optic on an AR? I don't have an A2 style AR. The only one I have has a 3X9 scope on it.

 

[nad63]

Are you saying that Atterbury won't allow a magnified optic on an AR? I don't have an A2 style AR. The only one I have has a 3X9 scope on it.

No you do not have to have a plain Jane A2 pattern AR (unless that is your preference). I think Huff was alluding to the fact of not getting caught up with having all the latest gadgets and just focus on the basics. Optics or irons you will have a great time. Something to write down info is needed and since the weather was wet and windy last year the use of the witr pad was on my radar. Now that Cable is looking at getting the target and grid etc printed on it this pad looks like a winner to me. Again not needed if you bring a pencil and paper. I cannot vouch for the cost of these but witr notepads go for about $15 or so depending on size. I am sure Cable will be ong to provide an update later.
One thing is for sure you will have a great time. My first Ike there last year and I can't wait for this years event. Hope to see you there (provided it gets scheduled that is!).

 

[grunt soldier]

Are you saying that Atterbury won't allow a magnified optic on an AR? I don't have an A2 style AR. The only one I have has a 3X9 scope on it.

what Ol'Huff is trying to say in a not so elegant way is that to many people try to rely on fancy do dads instead of the fundamentals. To many people show up at our events and tell us they have to have this scope for this reason, I need to run this flashlight and peq2, brace support, this magpul sling because they do this and that. They think it's the gadgets and gear that make them a better shooter when realistically it's the guy behind the rifle who controls it. Pretty much the vast majority of rifles produced this day and age are far more accurate than the shooter controlling it with all his bad habits. It's often said at Indiana appleseeds that you can't buy skill in isle 2 at your local walmart. You actually have to get out there and learn it. No amount of gadgets can fix you if you don't have the funadmentals (well except maybe that new laser guided gun set up lol)

All that being said At appleseed we are a very much run what you brung group. If you show up with 10 pounds of kit hanging off your rifle we will do our best to help instruct you in the fundamentals to make that rifle set up as 4 moa as possible. Just show up with a teachable attitude and no preconceived notions about what you have to do to shoot well (unless it's a medial issue that can mess you up)

 

[gregkl]

what Ol'Huff is trying to say in a not so elegant way is that to many people try to rely on fancy do dads instead of the fundamentals. To many people show up at our events and tell us they have to have this scope for this reason, I need to run this flashlight and peq2, brace support, this magpul sling because they do this and that. They think it's the gadgets and gear that make them a better shooter when realistically it's the guy behind the rifle who controls it. Pretty much the vast majority of rifles produced this day and age are far more accurate than the shooter controlling it with all his bad habits. It's often said at Indiana appleseeds that you can't buy skill in isle 2 at your local walmart. You actually have to get out there and learn it. No amount of gadgets can fix you if you don't have the funadmentals (well except maybe that new laser guided gun set up lol)

All that being said At appleseed we are a very much run what you brung group. If you show up with 10 pounds of kit hanging off your rifle we will do our best to help instruct you in the fundamentals to make that rifle set up as 4 moa as possible. Just show up with a teachable attitude and no preconceived notions about what you have to do to shoot well (unless it's a medial issue that can mess you up)

Thanks! I learned a lot at the Atlanta Appleseed 2 years ago. I still have a lot to learn. About the only high tech item I will have on my AR(other than a scope) is I am hoping to get the G.I. sling in black instead of OD green. That would be as "tactical" as I would get.

I really want to learn marksman skills by using a sling as my means of support. I'm not interested in bench shooting. I want to learn how to be a better marksman period. Well, and a better person I suppose. And maybe a little better looking would be nice. But that would be much tougher than earning a Rifleman patch!

 

[Cable]

Just not the waterproof kind IMO. I just don't see the need to spend the money on waterproof. That is all.

I disagree with you on this one. At these KD shoots we are out on the range rain or shine and definitely need something that doesn't fall apart from the elements.

The data gathered from each of the berms is priceless and definitely worth the investment of the extra dollars (where else can you shoot at 500 yds in a learning environment?).