AR-15 Pistol...5.56 vs 7.62 x 39...or .300 BLK

[Amishman44]

My night stand pistol is a Glock 30 .45 acp...and a 'double-C' Maglight...which the LED light works quite well in the house and around in the yard.

I'm really just wanting something that can be used in CQB in-and-around the house...that holds more rounds than the Glock.

Cost-wise...I don't currently reload but I am wanting to, however, that's a set-up that I have not yet invested in at this time.

The more I read up on some of the costs of .300BLK...the more I lean away from going in that direction.

On the flip side...it can get really complicated with all the choices in building a home-defense pistol...whereas a Ruger Mini-30 in 7.62 x 39 with a couple of 20-round magazines would also be a excellent choice for an in-and-around the home defensive weapon.

I just want something that has a little more firepower than my night stand based Glock 30 that is short, quick, simple, reliable, accurate, and gives me a 'quick-response' ability to something...should the need for it ever arise?

Matching the wife's pistol in 5.56 isn't the worst-case scenario as it would allow for the use of interchangeable magazines and remove the possibility of grabbing an incorrect magazine at a bad time.

 

[Ggreen]

300blk is not expensive. Is it something I plink with, not often but it's not that bad. Mini 30s are notorious and rarely hailed for their reliability or affordability. 300 shares mags with your 223 varieties. If you want cheap fmj supersonic rounds they can be had for 40 cents a round regularly. Cost per round is the last thing I worry about in a home defense weapon, as it is generally a wash among calibers when you put the goodnight pills in the magazines.

 

[shotgun0311]

I have .223 and .300 bo I love my .300 way more. However my scorpion is by far my favorite.

 

[Hop]

...wanting a pistol that will function in the 25-50-75-100 meter (no more) distance range...that is accurate, effective, reliable....
...stay in the 7.5" - 10" barrel-length range...
...how well does .300 BLK perform in a short-barrel...

Are you changing requirements on us now? If you stick to above parameters then you don't need the stuff JJFII is talking about. A red dot on a 300BLK fits those requirements perfectly. SBRs are LOUD. SBRs inside a house are BRUTALLY LOUD. Seriously think about a suppressor for any rifle shot inside the house.

If you're at the point where you need the JJFII kit we're all in for a world of hurt.

 

[ol' poke]

When inside buildings, LOUD is definitely a factor. 300bkl was made for a suppressed host. Subsonic ammo and a suppressor are the way to go. Add a red-dot and you're done. I don't believe any .223 loaded subsonic will operate a semi-auto AR.

I went with the 300blk and can still ring an 8" steel plate at 100 yds.

 

[Ggreen]

.

 

[JJFII]

Highly suggest you look into a class on Indiana gun law and self defense. "Man up the neighborhood" is a good way to catch a life sentence, especially if you are going out kitted out, as this shows premeditation. If SHTF and the Russians are flowing down mainstreet sure or if the socialists are violently overthrowing the government, but mikey meth mouth doing b/e's on your neighbors, I think it is best to shelter in place and wait for authorities.... I don't think the normal or even extraordinary home defense situation will realistically allow time to "kit up" in the middle of the night when your window breaks, and I know for dang sure the last thing I want is my wife kitting up beside me going all contra style... she will shelter in the bedroom and call police, while I move to secure the kids. There is no reason to give the bad guys more targets. Getting "kitted up" is not even a realistic training scenario for non first responders. Active shooter scenarios, unless you live in the middle of nowhere, there will be law enforcement on scene before you get your riot gear on. Again the right thing to do in an active shooter scenario would be to egress unless directly threatened, and allow the police to do their job.

Out to 150 or 200 yards 300blk is more effective in ft lbs than 223, it falls off quick but it's a brutal pill within it's range. 300blk is easily minute of man at 200. It devastates deer at 75 and will easily knock a hog over at 150 which is plenty for a soft fleshy human. Now legally if you were to shoot someone at 100 or even 50 yards you would have a lot of explaining to do, and I'm guessing the DA is probably going for at least manslaughter. Hard to prove self defense when you are taking shots like that, and the better safer bet at that point is to find a way to escape the area while proper authorities handle the rest. And if someone is engaging you from 200yards in the middle of the night, you're probably f'd because they have every advantage over you imaginable or even if they are just unskilled tweekers your best bet everytime is going to be egress not engage,just shelter and defend. Hard to say you were defending yourself when your defensive tactics move to the offensive. I would also like to dispel the myth that 300blk is somehow just a pistol round, and isn't effective or accurate at 200 yards. I know for a fact that my 300blk KAK braced pistol with a 7.5" barrel will hammer silhouettes at 200yards with just a red dot and very little hold over. Is it a counter sniper weapon, nope if that person is coming at you from 200 - 250 you won't have a chance to counter.


Most 300blk loads are full speed with 9.5" of barrel, making it ideal for an AR pistol, no need to sbr with a good brace set up. And a suppressor is not going to make 300 less effective, all that makes a suppressed 300 less effective is people developing a round that is tame enough to be silent. Supersonic 300blk through a can is as effective as it is without the can.

LOL... and again you either mis-read me or don’t get it.

methhead Mike doing B&E is solved by the pistol and flashlight. You don’t need a freaking 300bo pistol to deal with him at all.

this op has methhead mike solved.

if you are looking at taking the fight OUTSIDE... IN RIFLE RANGES .... you are not dealing with methhead mike and if you are ....any and all acts to kill him are going to be viewed as murder!

taking the fight outside is stepping up to a serious gun fight. This is what the op is talking about.

When I am talking about manning up the neighborhood I’m talking about a SHTF situation where you and your nieghbors are on your own. Looters, gang home invasions at night and no 911 coming to the rescue. This is THE ONLY LEGAL OUTSIDE FIGHT we can talk about without getting into serious legal aspects as well.

And please ggreen, I have far more experience in legal matters then you think...

@ the OP, there is nothing wrong with another 556 pistol in the house and s bunch of good reasons to keep the Ammo cost low.

You csn also build a PCC in 45 and use 30rd glock mags in it. I think we figured up a 45 PCC AR15 build just under 650 and a good red dot is all you will need.

again if you are talking about taking the fight outside, you are stepping up to serious gunfighting which requires serious training and a kit.

 

[JJFII]

So we are at
1- 300BO is out due to cost for training on a single firearm. You would have to feed 3 different guns. 300bo could be a contender when you start to think about upgrading the armory.
2- You got the in house covered with a Glock 30 and a AR15 pistol. AR15 pistols tend to bark loud and even if the round is under 2000fps, can have trouble punching through some walls. What does make it through may not be lethal on the other side. 45 isnt much better.

I think you should invest in a silencer and another AR15 in 556. Forget lasers. Invest in a good flashlight like a Surefire or Inforce. Get an APL for your Glock and two WLMX for the ARs. Get some good close range glass. Heads up close range means wide glass. So the Aimpoint and micro red dots are out. Those are great for outside, but are not the best inside. I put a Vortex SPARC AR on my PCC and love it, but its not the best indoor red dot. Its just got too small of glass. EOtech, C-more, MRO... those can be used inside and outside. C-more weights the most if its aluminum model, but is faster than an EOTech.

Here is my recommendations for a SHTF SD gun. (just suggestions, you can up the quality at higher expense)
upper- https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...slant-m-lok-upper-with-bcg-ch-5165448745.html - $300
Lower- https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...e-pistol-lower-no-magazine-gry-516447178.html -$180
Silencer - https://www.cmmginc.com/product/defcan-2-ti-5-56-dt-1-2-28/ - $750 + 200 + 4-6 month wait.
Optic- https://www.opticsplanet.com/eotech-512-holographic-red-dot-sight-aa-battery-aiming-dot-reticle.html $450
or
Optic - https://www.opticsplanet.com/c-more-tactical-railway-red-dot-sight-w-standard-switch.html $250 plastic or $320 aluminum get 4 MOA dot, way faster close range and 4MOA works best on 25yard zero
Light- https://www.opticsplanet.com/inforc...eapon-mounted-light-white-led-125-lumens.html - 400LUM $140

$1,000 Pistol _ Optic _ Flashlight.. add another $1,000 for the can.

 

[gmcttr]

All I will add about rifle caliber pistols is to keep a set of electronic hearing protector muffs with them.

If you decide to go with 300 BO, mark your mags and educate the wife. Some 300 BO rounds will chamber in a .556 and will result in a most unpleasant kaboom to the shooter.

 

[Prometheus]

If you want a heavier round and for that application 300blk is the way to go. I went with a 8.3" BA Hanson barrel for 2 reasons, primary was it was long enough for 65% of silencers that handles 300blk AND with the Hanson barrel it's a match barrel on top of that.

I love mine, runs like a top suppressed or not and does everything I want it to, with subs or supers.

 

[Amishman44]

If you want a heavier round and for that application 300blk is the way to go. I went with a 8.3" BA Hanson barrel for 2 reasons, primary was it was long enough for 65% of silencers that handles 300blk AND with the Hanson barrel it's a match barrel on top of that.

I love mine, runs like a top suppressed or not and does everything I want it to, with subs or supers.

Prometheus...that is one nice-looking .300BLK...Congrats!

I am considering going with .300BLK and avoiding 7.62x39 (at least in the AR platform) after watching several youtube videos on dealing with the various issues.

I think what I'm going to do is borrow/rent a rifle and shoot some 300BLK and see how the wife responds to that...she's shot .30-30 and shoots skeet quite well with her 20GA which she really likes.

In and around the home...I think staying with the same caliber (5.56 or .300BLK) is more important than a lot of the other arguments...as going that route eliminates a preventative issue in the midst of a worst-case scenario.

And my Glock 30 is not just a .45 in that it has a LWD 4.6" barrel + a 24# Recoil Spring and it's running .45 Super...so 'inside' the home, I won't be reaching for the AR pistol any time soon...this would be more for if I would have to go outside...but NOT onto the street...I would be staying on my property ONLY!

My other AR, a CMMG, is set-up for longer distances (400m+) with it's crowned + recessed + accurized bull-barrel + 4-12x40 scope...it'll ring 8" steel at 400m all day long...I just want something for closer-in and tighter areas and was debating on whether going with a heavier caliber was worth it or not...or if staying with the same caliber would be sufficient?

 

[JJFII]

Prometheus...that is one nice-looking .300BLK...Congrats!

I am considering going with .300BLK and avoiding 7.62x39 (at least in the AR platform) after watching several youtube videos on dealing with the various issues.

I think what I'm going to do is borrow/rent a rifle and shoot some 300BLK and see how the wife responds to that...she's shot .30-30 and shoots skeet quite well with her 20GA which she really likes.

In and around the home...I think staying with the same caliber (5.56 or .300BLK) is more important than a lot of the other arguments...as going that route eliminates a preventative issue in the midst of a worst-case scenario.

And my Glock 30 is not just a .45 in that it has a LWD 4.6" barrel + a 24# Recoil Spring and it's running .45 Super...so 'inside' the home, I won't be reaching for the AR pistol any time soon...this would be more for if I would have to go outside...but NOT onto the street...I would be staying on my property ONLY!

My other AR, a CMMG, is set-up for longer distances (400m+) with it's crowned + recessed + accurized bull-barrel + 4-12x40 scope...it'll ring 8" steel at 400m all day long...I just want something for closer-in and tighter areas and was debating on whether going with a heavier caliber was worth it or not...or if staying with the same caliber would be sufficient?

I understand wanting a new firearm, but you are moving the goal post a bit. Actually gGreen is kinda right now... seems to me you are looking to buy a murder charge.

Why are you "stepping outside" with a firearm that is not a typical sidearm identified by the majority of Jurors as a pistol? Stop, Think about what your answer is.

Please provide us a copy of the agreement you have with a criminal(s) that they will only get into a gunfight with you on your property and will not step off of it to kill you.

Can you provide scientific evidence that all rounds fired from your new 300bo will remain inside your property?

There is at least 2 people outside your home who are uninvited. You have no idea what they are doing. They seem to be breaking into your car. You are grabbing your new 300bo Pistol, 30rd magazine and going to "see what they are doing." As you approach them one of them throws a wrench at your head which hits you in the face. Another one is rushing at you with what appears to be a hammer... what do you do? This incident happened in New Mexico 12 years ago. The home owner grabbed his 556 AR pistol. The homeowner is now serving a double life sentence. Even if he didnt accidentally murder a girl sitting in a car behind his target, the fact he stepped outside looking for a fight, got one and killed two people with a scary AR in the process is enough for jurors.

You got all the firepower you need right now for all the problems you are predicting. Again I get you want another gun, we all do every single month. Dont pretend its for a fight when that fight isnt even justifiable.

The ONLY reason to get a new AR pistol used for "stepping outside" is open combat. That dictates a mindset and build standard that encompasses an agenda. A 300bo isnt in that agenda unless you are planning to change the wife's AR and kit out both of you.

If you want a cool gun to play with at the range and pretend its your go-to gun, that's cool man. I'd get a ACR or XCR if thats the case. Both of those are awesome firearms and it will get the need to buy something new out of your system.

 

[Ggreen]

I carry a gun outside for defense. I don't man up the neighborhood when stuff is going down that's none of my business.

 

[Sniper 79]

Got a link on these, my friend?


On the OP;
Our own Guy Relford, WIBC's Gun Guy, mentioned on his show that his bedside gun was a supressed 300 BLK.

No link on them. Was down at Whitakars. Found them on a back store shelf covered in dust. Blew the dust off and found the manager. Made them an offer amongst a few other items. Regret not buying more when I was there.

The more I read into this thread the guy needs to pound a sign in the yard and move. My old hood went to pot quickly as well. I sold for break even point and nailed. Sold some guns and archery and fishing stuff to cover moving expenses. No big deal.

 

[JJFII]

I carry a gun outside for defense. I don't man up the neighborhood when stuff is going down that's none of my business.

im sorry you have no friends or refuse to help them... I’m sorry your nieghbors can’t depend on you to help them.

I carry as well. I carry to help my self and any one around me.

A guy recently grabbed his AR and chased down a criminal who murdered
A bunch of people in a church... maybe you could learn from a great hero like that or be your smug self... your call.

I will I’ll give you credit here, you called this one ...bullseye.

you’ve been on INGO long enough to read a post better than I can...twice now.

This OP was about buying a new firearm to show off at the BBQ and NOT about getting into a serious gun fight or preparing for one.

 

[gmcttr]

...A guy recently grabbed his AR and chased down a criminal who murdered
A bunch of people in a church...

Yes and amazingly he was able to do that without level III or better armor or other fancy kit. He wasn't up against "James Yeager and James Yeager's kit" and none of us are likely to be either.

Me thinks you are going a bit overboard in attempting to help the OP and a bit self righteous as you accuse him of being "about buying a new firearm to show off at the BBQ". Time to tone it done a little.

 

[Ggreen]

im sorry you have no friends or refuse to help them... I’m sorry your nieghbors can’t depend on you to help them.

I carry as well. I carry to help my self and any one around me.

A guy recently grabbed his AR and chased down a criminal who murdered
A bunch of people in a church... maybe you could learn from a great hero like that or be your smug self... your call.

I will I’ll give you credit here, you called this one ...bullseye.

you’ve been on INGO long enough to read a post better than I can...twice now.

This OP was about buying a new firearm to show off at the BBQ and NOT about getting into a serious gun fight or preparing for one.

Generally when people ask for something in their op they have their mind made up in the area they want. Most people on here have more experience than we know, so I try to post helpful to the original as close as possible rather than make a suggestion and try to tell them how it is. I'm not rushing into my neighbors home wearing doomsday gear when I hear a bump in the night because I don't know what that bump is, I don't know who is in there, I'm not a cop, and I don't know who is who and or who the bad guy is. Now if i'm walking the dog and someone is trying to slink into my neighbors window that obviously isn't one of my neighbors I'll call the police and yell at them that I'm doing so while keeping a hand close to my pocket glock. I don't know if that is maybe someone who is housesitting and got locked out, IDK if it is their daughters bf, Idk if it is their kid sneaking in... Too many variables. Now if I have johnny psycho running out of a church or school shooting the place up I would react if I had the ability, but it's probably better all around to observe and report rather than insert. My safety and family's safety is utmost, if I make a dumb choice and get locked up for inserting myself into a situation I shouldn't have pretending to be john wick then I jeopardize the safety of my family by abandoning them while i'm in jail because I made a stupid choice. All the training I've ever taken has preached egress as the top response to a threat, and that is always my goal. Secure the family and get away from the threat so proper authorities can take control, if escape is not an option then force may be the last choice.

I think you and I just haven't hit our stride, I am not feeling any kind of way here just think we read eachother bad.

 

[JJFII]

Generally when people ask for something in their op they have their mind made up in the area they want. Most people on here have more experience than we know, so I try to post helpful to the original as close as possible rather than make a suggestion and try to tell them how it is. I'm not rushing into my neighbors home wearing doomsday gear when I hear a bump in the night because I don't know what that bump is, I don't know who is in there, I'm not a cop, and I don't know who is who and or who the bad guy is. Now if i'm walking the dog and someone is trying to slink into my neighbors window that obviously isn't one of my neighbors I'll call the police and yell at them that I'm doing so while keeping a hand close to my pocket glock. I don't know if that is maybe someone who is housesitting and got locked out, IDK if it is their daughters bf, Idk if it is their kid sneaking in... Too many variables. Now if I have johnny psycho running out of a church or school shooting the place up I would react if I had the ability, but it's probably better all around to observe and report rather than insert. My safety and family's safety is utmost, if I make a dumb choice and get locked up for inserting myself into a situation I shouldn't have pretending to be john wick then I jeopardize the safety of my family by abandoning them while i'm in jail because I made a stupid choice. All the training I've ever taken has preached egress as the top response to a threat, and that is always my goal. Secure the family and get away from the threat so proper authorities can take control, if escape is not an option then force may be the last choice.

I think you and I just haven't hit our stride, I am not feeling any kind of way here just think we read eachother bad.

I act no differently. I carry a pistol. I grab a rifle if needed when needed. I dont mix the two. I'm not advocating running out of the house in a plate carrier and carrying 200+ rounds of 556 with an AR to see whos next to your car. Nor am I saying this is a good way to go check on a noise in the middle of the night...But make no mistake, those items, specialized training and a clear action plan is needed for certain events...because pistols SUCK in gun fights.

I hope no one ever has to live through a disaster emergency where the NG and LEA just cant be everywhere at once. Looters exist. They are armed and they dont care. When someone asks for advice about fire power needed to "go outside"... I assume they mean to react to a direct threat...not to show the guys a new toy at a BBQ.

I'm sorry to say I have never seen a 300bo Pistol that is more than a range toy.

I have seen many ARs in 300bo that look like they could be awesome fighting weapons, but its just for looks. When I start asking solid questions about the persons kit and training... COD Fantasy talk is all I hear.

 

[bwframe]

 

[Ggreen]

I have seen many ARs in 300bo that look like they could be awesome fighting weapons, but its just for looks. When I start asking solid questions about the persons kit and training... COD Fantasy talk is all I hear.

Just wondering what the difference is?