Are car dealerships immune to economic conditions?

[longbow]

This is how I do trade in sales for new cars. I never deal on how much I can pay each month..............

What is your lowest dollar for selling that new car/truck first.

What is the highest dollar for the trade in second, if I was going to trade it in.....

If they don't play that way, both my wife and me have walked, anyother way is a waste of our time.

 

[melensdad]

. . . The bottom line is that they didn't come of sticker at all. And, no, they didn't jack up the trade-in value to compensate.

There was no negotiation. That's the whole point of my post.

I have found that with SOME models of cars and trucks, and specifically with models featuring a DIESEL engine, there is ZERO negotiating.

Not sure what engine you looked at, but that may also have been part of the issue? But $2500 is actually a pretty big differential. You claim its "measly" but it is not, its pretty large.

As for a used car salesman being a liar. Well doh! You expected different???

 

[PistolBob]

Last new car bought was in 1996. Never again. Since then we always look for the program car returns, usually 2 years old with 20K-30K miles on them and half the original selling price or better. We've had the absolute best luck with these vehicles and the dealer is usually willing to deal a lot more on used than on new. I only buy American so I don't know what the others will do.

 

[88GT]

If the salesman picked up on this, then I'd be willing to bet this is why they weren't more willing to deal for a couple of reasons. First, if you're not actively looking to make a purchase, his job of selling you on the terms and conditions you must agree to in order to drive off in that vehicle that you absolutely must have is much, much more difficult. When dealing with "passive buyers", some salespeople- and their managers- won't go all out to make a deal because most of the time it's not gonna happen anyway. These buyers typically walk 90% of the time no matter how good a deal they get offered. They're just not ready to commit, no matter the circumstances. Second, The more time a salesperson spends on a "passive buyer", the less time they get catching people actively looking to buy. I know that doesn't sound good, but when your paycheck is 100% commission, you gotta get 'em out the door if you want to eat that month.

Except the salesperson didn't know any of that. And while our intent when we decided to stop was just to look, it wasn't because we didn't want to buy, it was because we didn't expect to find something we would buy. I work in sales, 100% commission. You're not telling me anything I don't know. But I've never met a sales person who didn't at least try to lead the horse to water (some even try to force them to drink). Not a single one took the horse at his word when he said he wasn't thirsty.

Just curious... how did you arrive at that? Did you look the vehicle up by VIN, or some other way?

My husband looked the vehicle up on the dealer's website when we got home. The price on the internet was $1K less than the price he told me.

 

[04DarkShadowGT]

Its all about them trying to get the most profit and you trying to buy it for the lowest possible amount. You know that being in the sales game.

If its something that is in high demand they wont budge much. Chances are you would get much more off an F-150 than a F-350, especially a diesel. Even with the 350 having a higher sticker price.

Sounds like they werent a good place to work with, so move on and find a different dealer. Not sure how close you are to Covington but my cousin is a salesman with the Ford dealer there and is a great guy. My sister just bought an explorer from there and it was a good price and that is a very hard car to get a deal on. If interested PM me and I can get you his info.

 

[ReSSurrected]

Except the salesperson didn't know any of that. And while our intent when we decided to stop was just to look, it wasn't because we didn't want to buy, it was because we didn't expect to find something we would buy. I work in sales, 100% commission. You're not telling me anything I don't know. But I've never met a sales person who didn't at least try to lead the horse to water (some even try to force them to drink). Not a single one took the horse at his word when he said he wasn't thirsty.

Well, if you had your "I'm a buyer" face on, then I honestly don't have a clue. I was just running through what I know. I do know that there are a LOT of auto salespeople out there with the sales ability and personality of the rock currently stuck in the tread of one of my tires. Real estate is an entirely different game in my opinion, and one I have considered a few times. I'm just concerned with the amount of time it would take to get "up to speed", and the whole loss of income before I make a sale.

My husband looked the vehicle up on the dealer's website when we got home. The price on the internet was $1K less than the price he told me.

That could be anything. Did you say it was new or used? If new, it's tough to screw up on the price, unless he did it on purpose trying to build some cushion he could give up during negotiation. Regardless, it would fall into only one of two categories, "stupid" or "shyster".

Sometimes management will change prices on used inventory and not everyone- if anybody at all- gets the new prices in a timely manner.

I once spotter a used Wrangler I wanted for $11,995 driving past a Pontiac dealer on a Friday, but didn't have time to stop. I went back on Monday, and the same Jeep did not have the price in the window anymore. I aske how much it was, and the salesman said "$13,999." I said, "Well, it was $11,995 on Friday," and his reply was "Then it's $11,995 today." I still negotiated another $500 off of it.

 

[ReSSurrected]

Forgot to mention:

If it's new, I'd stop by and check the sticker price and see who's wrong, the dealer website or the salesperson.

 

[Titanium Man]

Tips on buying a new car.

If you have any sort of discount, supplier or employee, don't tell them until the last moment. Research plans, and maybe between where you and your wife work, you may qualify for some type of discount.

Go on KBB.com and do your homework.

Don't like the car you're buying. If they think you absolutely love it, they'll swoop in for the kill.

Make them take off all the spifs and dealer add ons that are tacked on the sticker. Tell them you're not paying $150 for pin stripping, or $250 for upholstery protection. I can buy a roll or pin stripping or can of fabric protector for a whole lot less.

READ the contract for any add ons they don't tell you about. Unnecessary insurances, etching, you wouldn't believe the crap they stick on.

Most dealers won't come down off sticker when a trade in is involved.

They also hate people with good credit, because you can shop for that. Bad credit means more money kicked back into their pocket.

Come in with the KBB print out, so they can't blow smoke up your hooo hole.

Also, if you have a trade in, and it's paid for, do not tell them until the last moment you have the title free and clear. They want you to fell desperate if you owe money or have a payoff.

Try to work a deal on the car before you let them know you have a trade in. If they says that changes the deal, then say, hey, you're going to make the money off the trade. You want the sale don't you? If they won't budge, walk out and tell them you're going to a competitor. They hate when you go to another same brand auto dealer.

If you do your homework, they won't want to talk to you again, once you drive off the lot. I make em hate me, because I'm armed with knowledge, and I put them in their place as a worthless car salesman.

A salesman once asked my wife, "is he always like this?". She said "Yep!"

Good luck, and go in armed with knowledge.

I feel sorry for all the people who actually think car salesmen are helping them.

I Pity the fools.

There are a few reasons to buy new. Warranty, Lower Insurance Rates, Not buying someone elses problems, and obviously getting the exact car you want with hopefully no problems for a few years.

 

[88GT]

Real estate is an entirely different game in my opinion, and one I have considered a few times. I'm just concerned with the amount of time it would take to get "up to speed", and the whole loss of income before I make a sale.

Not really. Just as many "lookers" and "tire kickers" in real estate as there are in vehicle sales. Maybe more.

They say to have a reserve of six months. But you get out of it what you put into it. I used to work with a single mom who did $4 million in sales her first year, which is impressive regardless of the market. It's harder to get the business now, but there's less competition as well. Always a trade-off. But if you needed to make the money, you could.

 

[ReSSurrected]

Tips on buying a new car.

If you have any sort of discount, supplier or employee, don't tell them until the last moment. Research plans, and maybe between where you and your wife work, you may qualify for some type of discount.

If you do this on an employee discount program such as Chrysler green slip, Ford X plan, or GM A plan, expect to lose your discount privilege for a year. I've seen it happen right before my eyes. When you are on an employee discount, there is NO negotiation. None. Period. I worked with an older couple once for hours who then proceeded to whip out their son's Chrysler green slip (immediate family was legit) and try to get the under-invoice discount subtracted from the already negotiated deal. The manager confiscated the discount papers, and told them "Congratulations, your son just lost his discount privileges."

Don't like the car you're buying. If they think you absolutely love it, they'll swoop in for the kill.

This can go both ways. If the dealer feels like they're being played, expect to get kicked to the curb.

Make them take off all the spifs and dealer add ons that are tacked on the sticker. Tell them you're not paying $150 for pin stripping, or $250 for upholstery protection. I can buy a roll or pin stripping or can of fabric protector for a whole lot less.

Most dealers don't tack anything on anymore for this very reason.

READ the contract for any add ons they don't tell you about. Unnecessary insurances, etching, you wouldn't believe the crap they stick on.

See above.

Most dealers won't come down off sticker when a trade in is involved.

I'd have to disagree. It depends on the deal.

They also hate people with good credit, because you can shop for that. Bad credit means more money kicked back into their pocket.

Generally false. They prefer good credit because if you've made it to the point you're filling out an app, that means all they gotta do is get the bank to buy the deal. And if they do, they generally make interest points on the loan. If the bank buys the note at 4% and they write the deal up at 6%, the dealer get a check for that 2%.

Also, if you have a trade in, and it's paid for, do not tell them until the last moment you have the title free and clear. They want you to fell desperate if you owe money or have a payoff.

I'd agree with this. Too many people are content with getting payoff for their trade. A better strategy is to inflate the amount owed on your trade by a few thousand. People tend to feel that their trades are worth what they owe on them. Inflating your payoff can sometimes make them "show" you more for it in trade value. You can even inflate your trade value higher than actual value even if it's paid for. There's no law against lying to a salesperson.

Try to work a deal on the car before you let them know you have a trade in. If they says that changes the deal, then say, hey, you're going to make the money off the trade. You want the sale don't you? If they won't budge, walk out and tell them you're going to a competitor. They hate when you go to another same brand auto dealer.

All that's going to do is **** them off. Don't expect to be making any type of deal doing this.

 

[ReSSurrected]

Not really. Just as many "lookers" and "tire kickers" in real estate as there are in vehicle sales. Maybe more.

They say to have a reserve of six months. But you get out of it what you put into it. I used to work with a single mom who did $4 million in sales her first year, which is impressive regardless of the market. It's harder to get the business now, but there's less competition as well. Always a trade-off. But if you needed to make the money, you could.

I should have clarified, I said "different game" because I feel that the competition is probably a lot tighter, I think far more R.E. peeps are "in it to win it" than auto salespeople. I can (did) sell cars like nobody's business- ethically to boot- but feel that there would be pretty stiff competition waiting for me in the R.E. arena.

 

[04DarkShadowGT]

Buying cars isnt rocket science. Imo the nonsene of holding back trades until after the other car is negotated and all that other stuff is a waste of time.

Just know what you are willing to pay for the car you want including rebates and everything. Know what your trade in value is. Dont be afraid to walk away if they cant do what you want them to, you can always find the same car/truck somewhere else. But also you have to understand its a business and they are there to make money. They arent going to do it for free.

 

[VaGriller]

Don't be scared to buy new. A buddy bought a 2011 F350 in April, got 4500 off msrp from Xplan (look it up if youre not famaliar--there are ways to get a plan pin number and not be related to a ford employee), 4500 in rebates, and financed it under 3%..

With Xplan the dealer also can't hit you with their ridiculous processing fee.

Between Xplan, rebates and some finance deals on new vehicles, it almost doesn't make sense to buy a used one.

 

[ReSSurrected]

Don't be scared to buy new. A buddy bought a 2011 F350 in April, got 4500 off msrp from Xplan (look it up if youre not famaliar--there are ways to get a plan pin number and not be related to a ford employee), 4500 in rebates, and financed it under 3%..

With Xplan the dealer also can't hit you with their ridiculous processing fee.

Between Xplan, rebates and some finance deals on new vehicles, it almost doesn't make sense to buy a used one.

I'd be interested in knowing how he got $4500 off on the discount, and then another $4500 in rebates. Would be the very first time I've heard of this.

 

[Titanium Man]

If you do this on an employee discount program such as Chrysler green slip, Ford X plan, or GM A plan, expect to lose your discount privilege for a year. I've seen it happen right before my eyes. When you are on an employee discount, there is NO negotiation. None. Period. I worked with an older couple once for hours who then proceeded to whip out their son's Chrysler green slip (immediate family was legit) and try to get the under-invoice discount subtracted from the already negotiated deal. The manager confiscated the discount papers, and told them "Congratulations, your son just lost his discount privileges."



This can go both ways. If the dealer feels like they're being played, expect to get kicked to the curb.



Most dealers don't tack anything on anymore for this very reason.



See above.



I'd have to disagree. It depends on the deal.



Generally false. They prefer good credit because if you've made it to the point you're filling out an app, that means all they gotta do is get the bank to buy the deal. And if they do, they generally make interest points on the loan. If the bank buys the note at 4% and they write the deal up at 6%, the dealer get a check for that 2%.




I'd agree with this. Too many people are content with getting payoff for their trade. A better strategy is to inflate the amount owed on your trade by a few thousand. People tend to feel that their trades are worth what they owe on them. Inflating your payoff can sometimes make them "show" you more for it in trade value. You can even inflate your trade value higher than actual value even if it's paid for. There's no law against lying to a salesperson.



All that's going to do is **** them off. Don't expect to be making any type of deal doing this.

There's lots of dealers, and my tips are just that, tips. Most employee discounts work without losing it, and the manager who confiscated the discount papers was out of line. He has no right to do that.

A car dealer has to make money, but do it the old fashioned way, sell lots of cars, not zero in on one particular sale to do it.

I also make sure I use the dealer service to it's full potential, until after the warranty is out, then take it to your own mechanic to save lots of money. I love it when they come in, during an oil change, with their little gauge showing my fluids, and how I need this and that. I politely thank them and let them know I'll let my mechanic know.

 

[88GT]

I should have clarified, I said "different game" because I feel that the competition is probably a lot tighter, I think far more R.E. peeps are "in it to win it" than auto salespeople. I can (did) sell cars like nobody's business- ethically to boot- but feel that there would be pretty stiff competition waiting for me in the R.E. arena.

Gotcha. But from the customer-buyer standpoint, I really don't think there's much different beyond those inherent to the product.

Competition might be tighter in terms of total numbers, but competition for really honest licensees who follow through is practically non-existent. The trick is convincing people that it's not the marketing crap that makes the agent good. ANYBODY, and I mean anybody, can market the home. If marketing were the secret weapon FSBOs would [STRIKE]never[/STRIKE] rarely sell. It's what happens AFTER the offer comes in that makes an agent bad, good, or great. But that's the part that hard to highlight when you're interviewing for the job.

Still, the bar is so damn low, it's not hard to meet most clients' expectations.

 

[ReSSurrected]

and the manager who confiscated the discount papers was out of line. He has no right to do that.

No, he was not out of line. These people wasted several hours of my time due to their attempt to "stick it to the man". The dealer has every right to yank the employee's discount when the authorized user attempts to abuse the system.

Rather than engage in an online pissing match, I would suggest that anyone who is about to use an employee discount read over ALL the rules regarding said discount, and move forward educated.

 

[Lucas156]

You got ticked because somebody tried to get the best discount they could? Sounds hypocritical when you are trying to make the most profit you can. Some sales people are slimy so you get ticked off when somebody wants to play hardball. What did you expect?

Salespeople don't give a **** if a person can actually afford the payment. They want to know if they can make the payment not if a family can eat and make their car payment.

 

[ReSSurrected]

You got ticked because somebody tried to get the best discount they could? Sounds hypocritical when you are trying to make the most profit you can. Some sales people are slimy so you get ticked off when somebody wants to play hardball. What did you expect?

Negative. I got ticked that they tried to pull a stunt that is forbidden by the discount agreement between the manufacturer and the dealer. On employee discount, they are already buying the vehicle for less than the dealership pays, and the manufacturer reimburses the dealer back the loss. The trade off is that there is no BS from the buyer, like attempts to "double dip." I expected them to honor that agreement.

Salespeople don't give a **** if a person can actually afford the payment. They want to know if they can make the payment not if a family can eat and make their car payment.

Is it the dealer's responsibility to determine the buyer's ability to make a payment they agreed to??? That's called a nanny state. What happened to personal responsibility? Did someone hold a gun to their head and force them to sign on the dotted line?? You want to ***** at the dealer about people taking out loans they can't afford? You'd be the first one screaming when a dealer told you "Gee, your loan was approved, but we just don't think this is a good idea for you."

People who shout "FREEDOM!!" and then expect everyone else to tend to their well being really make me shake my head in disgust...

 

[VaGriller]

I'd be interested in knowing how he got $4500 off on the discount, and then another $4500 in rebates. Would be the very first time I've heard of this.

Just because you have an Xplan pin doesn't mean you can't stack factory rebates on top. I'm not sure how other manufactures work, but I've bought two new Fords using Xplan. Didn't get rebates when I bought though because SVT vehicles were never rebated in 01 and 03.
He saved 4500 off MSRP using Xplan, and then had another 4500 in factory rebates.

Ford X Plan Pricing - A pre-determined below market value price established by the Ford Motor Company. This price is clearly marked on the factory invoice. Factory Incentives - All factory Rebates and/or Special Interest Rates are passed on to the Ford X Plan customer. Additional Ford X Plan Incentives - Periodically, Ford offers additional incentives to the X Plan customer that are not available to the general pubic.

Your story of I watched the manager confiscate their papers, what right did the dealer to do that unless the employee worked at that dealer?